Rock and Roll Royalty, with Paul Korzilius '76, Roland Mesa '82, and Walt Versen '77
About this Episode
Episode 156: Published on Apr 25, 2024
This special episode centers around the cast and crew of the upcoming film Play the Game: A Jock ‘N’ Roll Story; the film covers the true story of how a group of Northwestern football players worked as security for the band Queen in its heyday.
[GENTLE MUSIC] MAX: Welcome back to Northwestern Intersections, Northwestern Alumni Association podcast. We'll be talking to alums about their careers and the lessons they've learned along the way. Our guests today bring the true story of taking a Northwestern direction on an unbelievable path. Walt Versen and Paul Korzilius came to Northwestern as student athletes and left with some pretty fun stories, most memorably, touring with Freddie Mercury And Queen, the biggest band on the planet. After years of saying, you could make a movie out of this story, that idea became a reality. Fellow alum and director, Roland Mesa also joins us to discuss the upcoming film, Play the Game, a Jock and Roll Story. We'll discuss this and more in this episode of Northwestern Intersections. First of all, Paul, thank you so much for being on the show.
PAUL KORZILIUS: Our pleasure. Thank you for having us. It's an honor.
MAX: I don't want to spoil too much of the movie, but obviously a big component of this story is your time playing football at Northwestern. What was it like being on the team in this period of time and what were some formative experiences as players that you look back on?
PAUL KORZILIUS: Well, I was fortunate enough to be recruited under Alex Agase. And in my junior and senior year of high school in Cleveland, Ohio, Northwestern was second in the big ten. And as a senior in high school, I was taken as a guest to see Ohio State versus Northwestern at Ohio State, and Northwestern actually beat Ohio State at Ohio State-- or should I say, the Ohio State, and it was great. So that was, you know, I'm going, this is cool. And then we also got onto campus and all of a sudden, this is the first year, my year, freshman year 72 is the first year that freshmen are actually allowed to compete at the varsity level. So that had changed a lot. Also in 1972 is the first year you could vote as an 18-year-old. And so there was a lot of unique political-science type of activities going on.
But ultimately, the only reason we're here today is because we both said yes to the recruiters from Northwestern. We both got the chance, and all of us fellow alum got a chance to go to one of the greatest academic institutions on Earth. And we really had no-- I had no reason going there. I won't speak for others. I mean, I probably was lucky if I could have gotten into Ohio state. But because it's Northwestern, my dad had played there, not that had a lot to do with it. But it was just the biggest opportunity. As a young 17 year old, you're making a decision that affects you the rest of your life and you have no idea what it all means. Had the chance to go to several schools, picked Northwestern, turned out to be a great choice, a fantastic choice. And the education you get from Northwestern is incredible. The exposure you get from Northwestern is incredible.
But also, I really wouldn't have been in college without football, no doubt. And also, football made you go to class, because we had to carry a certain GPA. You had to go to class. So it's really a dual thing. Couldn't get there without football, couldn't stay there without football. And that's really sums up that Northwestern experience.
WALT VERSEN: I had slightly different. I'm four years younger than Paul. He graduated in May of 1976. I graduated from high school, Loyola Academy in Wilmette, right next to Evanston. I was a local boy. I too, saw Northwestern play Ohio State when I was a junior in high school and Northwestern scored the first touchdown of the game was seven to nothing in the first quarter at Dyche Stadium, as it was called then, as it will always be called to us. And by the end of the game, Cornelius Green and Archie Griffin put 55 on Northwestern final score, 55 to seven. The year before I walked on campus, Northwestern finished two and nine-- not last in the Big Ten, Indiana had that honor.
And the difference between me and Paul and most of my other teammates is I didn't want to be there. I wanted to go away to school, but the overwhelming support, loving and bullying me in my family, wants Northwestern, the wonderful elite school right down the street from where I went to high school, offered me a scholarship. There was no question where I was going except for in my mind. So football might have compelled Paul to go to class-- didn't really compel me to go to class. And after my short and undistinguished football and academic career, Northwestern and I parted ways. But I had already started working concerts, and that also starts with Paul. And that's where this story goes.
MAX: Paul, I really want to ask you this, because you were the one, from what I understand, who kind of, you know, like Walt mentioned, you were the reason that all of this eventually was able to bloom. Tell me about how you got connected into the business of rock and roll and where did that lead/
PAUL KORZILIUS: Well, you know, unlike today with name, image and likeness, we as athletes got paid nothing. Got literally, literally nothing other than, of course, tuition, room, board, books, so that's cool. No problem there. So you needed part-time work. And happy to be a bartender, that was a lot of fun. Happy to be a lifeguard, that was a lot of fun. But the real fun was working rock concerts. And I first started working at [? Paul ?] [? Heyman's, ?] who was an upperclassman, I think only one year upper from me. He was from Milwaukee and he did have this connection with concert security company. And he sort of asked me, do you want to do this? And I said, sure.
So we drove up, get $20 a show, you get $5 for gas, and you get to see a show. So my first show was Deep Purple. And I was always a huge music fan. When I grew up in Cleveland, which is a great rock and roll town, I would-- didn't have the money to go to concerts, so we would actually sneak into concerts. And we figured out how to scale the buildings and how to move here, move there, whatever. But we figured it all out, got into the shows, had an amazing time. But now I'm getting paid to be at a concert, which is incredible.
And from there, it used to be called Wendy C. productions, and then they changed the name to Jan productions. They're still the promoter in Chicago of record, big independent promoter. And during the week, we'd sort of drive to Milwaukee or Madison or Green Bay to cover a show. And then on the weekends, the way the business worked, those tours would be in Chicago for the weekend. So we were really working up North in Wisconsin and also then back in Illinois for two different promoters, but not necessarily seeing the same shows. And it was really just a lot of fun.
And then it's really interesting is that I never did work at any concert on campus. That just was weird. I never did that at all, which is the way a lot of people get from college to this business, is by being on the concert committee. But I guess really, we didn't do that many concerts then, and I was probably seeing three to five concerts a week and I was getting paid, and I loved it. So that really just progressed to the point where when I did graduate in 76, I did move to Milwaukee, and I did start working for that company on a full time basis, had contracts for some tours, had contracts for the State Fair, had contracts for a lot of venues, and that was all pretty good. But that's really my entry point, was being tour security, just like being a lifeguard or a bartender. It was three fun, part-time jobs that one of them turned into a real time career.
The other thing to mention, Max, this is really important. In the game of football, there's offense, there's defense, there's sub-groups and all that stuff. But generally speaking, the smartest people on the field are the offensive linemen. And what is Wally? What is Bill? What am I? Offensive lineman. So there is a mentality that goes into being an offensive lineman. At the most and at the minimum, it's five people doing one job, and literally all five on every play do their job, otherwise, it just doesn't work. And I think there's this unique concept of team that gets built up within that five, not the larger 11 or larger 22 or whatever, but just that five. And I think that basis also leads to success in a big team environment like a touring space.
WALT VERSEN: My first show-- so Paul graduated, went to work for a company in Milwaukee. I didn't know Paul, but I knew a lot of the upperclassmen had been teammates and friends with Paul. And I did my first concert in April of 1977. My first show was at the Pontiac Silverdome, Led Zeppelin, 78,000 people at the time, the biggest paid rock concert. And I was working for that company in Milwaukee. I didn't know Paul. Paul had gone to work for Queen. I didn't know Paul. Some of the upperclassmen did. And I spent three hours deflecting madness in front of an eight foot barricade and I loved it. I loved the action.
I heard a three hour Zeppelin show. I didn't see one piece of skin in that band because there was an eight foot barricade, which doesn't exist today, and I was in front of it with a simple instruction-- keep people off of it. If they're aggressive, drag them down. If they're in distress, throw them over. That was the extent of my instruction and I loved it. So I kept doing shows. It was a tonic. It was-- I wasn't a happy kid at school, but I loved absolutely, I loved the action of working concerts. And then started hearing the legend of the guy who graduated earlier and was out working for a huge rock band, Paul Korzilius, affectionately known to my friends, the upperclassmen as Godzilias.
MAX: So, Paul, you're out working for Queen. Walt, you hear this story. Tell me how your two paths sort of intertwined. Walt, like, how did you get involved with Queen? And from what I understand, a group of you guys ultimately get with Queen and go on tour. How did this come about?
WALT VERSEN: Well, Paul was out with Queen, and I didn't know Paul. I just knew the legend of Paul. And I don't want to get into the politics of how it all works at the cellular level, but Queen was coming to play Chicago at Chicago Stadium in 1977, and Paul was putting the security staff together. And word got out that Paul Korzilius was calling some people. And I had worked a huge number of shows at a venue that still lives at Southern Central Wisconsin, Alpine Valley. I had worked every show at the opening of that for that company in Milwaukee. And the word also got spread, if you work the Queen show, you're not going to work a lot of other shows.
Paul called, introduced himself, asked if I wanted to work the show, and I said, I'd love to, but it's not the right business decision for me. Paul said, I understand. I respect that. And that started our relationship. And then we just got to know each other. And a couple of years later, Paul was working for another rock band. I did a few things for him. And when he left Queen, he recommended that they hire me and they did. And so the line was passed through to me. But Paul had brought a couple of our classmates, teammates out with him at various occasions, and I was able to do the same thing four years later.
PAUL KORZILIUS: Yeah, there was a big deal to bring in what effectively was a security company to that show in Chicago. And this is a very early time in the business, even though it is already now 77. It's still the formative years of the business. And really, there wasn't at that point in time a sense of how things should be done or, you know-- and as we went along, defined it. First and foremost, you have to have public safety. You have to take care of the fan, and the fan is the paying customer, got to protect the artist. But you have to have a certain civility that goes on.
You know, there were too many stories, we've all heard about them of Hell's Angels being hired or karate people being hired, and was always this confrontation where you've got to destroy the patron. Well, that's not the way we looked at it and it's not the way the Queen looked at it. And so there was this-- but to go out there and just hire a bunch of people to work a show in Chicago at like, you know, relatively rough and tumble section of town and a building was pretty much unheard of. But nonetheless, and you're right, I think there was the threat of blackballing. You'll never work in this town again until we need you. That's how that worked. Not that we knew we were sort of setting the trend or necessarily normalizing or standardizing the way this whole business should work, but that's really how it all started.
WALT VERSEN: From my experience-- and Paul had done-- had been with Queen for three solid years and toured the world with them three different times and prepped me as much as he could about how it was all going to go. And then when Queen hired me because of Paul, they said, you're hired, bring another guy with you. So I brought Mike Fiedler Northwestern class of 1981, who was one of my best friends, a veteran of many, many, many rock shows, a gentle giant as well, thoughtful, cerebral guy out with me as the other guy. And I still have my notes. I'm looking at my box full of stuff, which is all the stuff I've collected since we've been on this path of making the movie. And I have my first itinerary, and I made notes about all the security companies.
And I didn't put a number system on it. But if I would now, you know, five being decent and one being holy shit, how horrible this is, everything was one, two, and the occasional three. It was never good. It was usually mediocre and it was often horrible. And I realized that the training we got for that company in Milwaukee, carried on with Paul, who helped go on to define it, we didn't know we were at the forefront, but Paul was at the forefront of inventing this shit and how touring runs with his career. And now I don't know that Northwestern offers music business, major or minor, but many schools in the country do. Paul Korzilius was at the forefront of writing that curriculum.
And I don't think I'm blowing smoke, Paul. You know, it was wild. It was-- he called it-- he was gentle-- the formative years. It was a wild, wild West out there. There were people doing things that they were just making up at the time because this thing presented itself and they had to do it, starting with Paul, we added the Northwestern thing just by being who we were. We weren't trained other than a little bit of training for that company in Milwaukee. But we kind of were making it up as we went along, and Paul was at the forefront of a lot of that.
PAUL KORZILIUS: Like I said, the business was in its formative years. And if you're lucky enough to be at the formative side of anything, you do get to have an imprint. You do get to evangelize and say the way it should be done. And I think as you went through the tour, each company that was providing local security could see the way that we did it, the Northwestern guys from Queen, and they could adapt and could upgrade, for lack of a better term. So it was really just a great time, because you had Queen at the height of their touring career. You had the arena business just really being formed, whether it be on the production side, whether it be on the routing side. But everything that we did was all analog. There were it was analog as it gets.
So you had to rely upon that phone communication in advance quite well. The written word is a contract writer, but there was no security writer. We would get to the venue, we would have to have a meeting with that local venue and with that local security because Freddie liked-- he understood and respected, you can't have chaos throughout the entire show, but for the encores, he's going to want people to come down to the front. He's going to want to have a surrounding. We had a nice little stage thrust that went out in the audience, and he wanted some action, interaction and fun.
So we did a stage release throughout every show. Now, whether we were in Japan or Austria or England or anywhere in America or in North America with Canada, we had to communicate this philosophy, this concept. And it's hard to get through to certain cultures or whatnot, because no one wants to have any chaos or any problems. But no, we sort of worked it through on a day by day, show by show basis. And ultimately, that sort of became what the business is today, which with the exception of a few errors here and there, has stood up pretty, pretty high quality.
MAX: So I want to ask you guys this. And I don't want to give too much away, because obviously I'm going to ask some of this to Roland as well. But not only were you really pioneering the industry, you're kind of on the early days of, like you mentioned, this business, but you were also on tour with Queen, Freddie Mercury, like the biggest rock star on the planet. What was it like? Just give me a couple stories of what it was like to be with Freddie Mercury as a person?
PAUL KORZILIUS: The one thing I'll say about Freddie, and the most important thing I'll say about Freddie, he's a great leader, really a great leader. And there was always a conversation within the band, is it Freddie Mercury and Queen, or is it Queen? Because each person in that band, all four of them, brought a very unique set of skills to the table. And one of the important things-- most important thing, is not only was a very good leader, they were all a good team. They literally communicated on everything. And one of the, I guess, founding factors is that after every show, literally everybody went to dinner together. So they had a chance to sit down, talk about the show, check in with each other, see how things are going, and then go on and do what to do from there, the rest of the evening.
And at least during my term, they definitely had that. But I always felt Freddie just had this great sense of leadership, because he could have easily became Freddie Mercury and Queen. He always made sure it was Queen. He just did. The flip side of that is, he didn't really do a lot of the press and promo because he wanted to make sure he had voice rest. So I mean, Roger Taylor and Brian May and John Deacon, we're the ones who went out at the radio stations. The nice thing about being in the slot that we were in, especially with this band, is, number one, they're all intelligent, they're a great team, they understand leadership, they are dedicated to their art like there's no tomorrow.
There is, I think part of the major production value increase is to show business started with Queen. They wanted to make sure that every show was top notch priority and nothing interfered with that show. There is no drinking or drugging or anything like that, because the show came first and foremost. So it was an incredible opportunity. I do think if I hadn't been lucky enough to work with those first formative three years of my career with Queen, it could have gone horribly wrong. You get with the wrong band or whatever, you're in trouble. These guys are so smart, so well educated, worked so well as a team. And they were precise.
I mean, there would be times Brian May didn't like the way his guitar sounded at soundcheck, felt it was really because the dampness in the air and the speaker cone was-- speaker cone was damp. He would get up on-- the doors were open, but he'd be up there with a hairdryer against the speaker cone to make sure it got dry enough, and then he would work, you know, his plectrum, which was a coin, not a plastic thing, but a coin made out of real silver, which gave it a certain sound. And they had this echoplex, which is a tape delay type of device. And he would run his ring, ring, ring. So he'd play one note, it would repeat twice. And then that's how you build up all those great guitar signatures. But the other thing is nothing was on tape. This was all live there. One of the most unique opportunities, unique group of individuals that set the tone, set the pace for the industry. Absolutely. Across all areas.
WALT VERSEN: And Paul, I'm going to echo what you said from a personal level, because I know it's true for me, and I'm speculating because I know you well, that if we had worked for anybody else at the beginning of our careers, our careers wouldn't have had the amazing trajectory that they had. We started at the top-- not only at the time, maybe the Stones were bigger, maybe, you know, Led Zeppelin, The Who were slightly bigger at the time, but now you can't say that. And also, as he was saying, those were brilliant guys who looked at this as a science as well as a business that suited Paul perfectly, it suited me perfectly.
It set the standard. Paul's worked with many other acts, many of them huge. I mean, he ran Jon Bon Jovi's management company and managed Bon Jovi for 30 years. I worked for Phil Collins, Genesis, Ratt in their heyday, other big artists. And we had-- I know Paul's had, and I've had more influence on those acts than most people in my position. And I look back on those Queen years as so formative that I would go into other camps. I spent 13 years with REO Speedwagon, and their road operation, it was fine when it got in, but it wasn't the way I knew it to be, had to be. So I butted heads with everybody for three years and formed it, not in my likeness, but in the likeness that I learned from Paul Korzilius and my two years with Queen that I've carried with me now for 40 years. And I believe that to be absolutely true.
MAX: I want to ask now, Roland. Roland, the director of the film. Roland, thanks again for being here. I want to ask you a question in terms of the direction of this film. First of all, how did this story come about, and also, how do you pick where to go with it? When you're on tour with Queen and Freddie Mercury, there's got to be just a million different stories that you can tell. How did you narrow that down?
ROLAND MESA: Well, hey, thanks for having me, Max. Well, interestingly enough, Walt Versen and I have known each other for many, many, many, many, many years. But because he's a bit older and he was really a star jock in our grammar school at Saint Peter's in Skokie, and I was just this, like, dweeby nerd, you know, I kind of looked up to him but really weren't friends. And then he went he and I went to the same high school and of course, Northwestern. But it took many, many years later and decades later to connect. And we were talking a little bit about documentaries and such, and he was telling me his life story. And I said, that's the documentary I want to make.
But at the time, it felt kind of like this fish out of water story and this wild kind of magic carpet ride, as Walt puts it, that would just be an amazing story to tell. And what happens with documentaries all the time is it's just a different sort of story starts to envelop and come to life. And it became much more of a human story and much more heartwarming. And it had its elements of tragedy as well, as one of the six guys passed away as we were sort of starting on the movie, which led us to start looking at other things that were affecting or might have affected that, which would have been brain injuries, let's say, or brain trauma at the time of playing football. And that's become a part of the story as well.
So it's got the fun stuff that you'd expect. Like you said, there's so many stories of these guys tell. And meanwhile, of course, there's six of them telling their stories of the relationships with the band, learning on the job and being, again, fish out of water. So it's a lot of funny stories and funny anecdotes as well. And there's a humanity to it from the way Freddie Mercury interacted with them, because these guys were, you know, Midwest, a bit sheltered, I guess, not worldly, and had not been out of the country before. And their first exposure to anyone from the gay community was Freddie Mercury. And the way he kind of handled the situation was really amazing to hear, how he kind of brought them in as part of the Queen family. So beautiful tribute to Freddie and the others in the band who were just so grateful and nice to the guys from Northwestern who had, you know, never been out of the country, they weren't English and all. So it really has kind of become a bigger, bigger story than what it's started out to be.
MAX: What are you most excited about for people to see in terms of the film, and then what are the next steps, where are you in the process and what are you looking forward to in terms of continuing to make this film happen?
ROLAND MESA: Well, we've done, as you know, we've done a few live appearances, panel discussions where I've shown a few rough cut clips of the movie of where it's at now. And those have been amazing and inspiring to see that with an audience and to hear feedback afterward. And it sort of validates the whole idea that this is a bigger story than just Northwestern football players who ran off and did a world tour with a rock band. That's really great to hear. And I think that's the goal, is audiences to see it and be surprised by some of the revelations in it as well.
And where we're at now is we've got some funding, but we need a lot more funding, and every little bit that comes in, we're able to do a little more. So that means filming a little more like we did last week and next week, and then continue to edit the story together as a big, long, rough cut. But we definitely are still fundraising. We have a fiscal sponsor called Film Independent, and that's for people who want to donate and get a tax write off on their donation. But there's also investment opportunities and all of that information is on the website for the film called playthegamefilm.com, and we continue to move forward as we continue to try to raise money.
MAX: Before I let you guys go, I have to ask a fun question. Walt, Paul, this one's for you. Give me your most fun story from touring.
PAUL KORZILIUS: Well, ultimately, there is a lot of excitement in organized sports and unorganized sports, you know. But for me, when you are at a show, it's a Giants Stadium, it's the culmination of so many hours, days, months in the making, and it can all go horribly wrong just with one small blip. So to get everybody, local, touring, to get to that point, to that show point, and you go stand by house lights, go house lights. That's it. It's great. So show goes great and all. That's fine. You walk up the stage and everybody's happy. But that one moment you spend your entire everything goes right into standby house lights, go house lights. Nothing better than live entertainment. Nothing will ever, ever replace it.
WALT VERSEN: Yeah, I'm going to echo that. It's a nightly rush. And I've been in this business now my entire adult life, and I also spent some time in the theater business, the legitimate theater business, on a small level during COVID. And that moment where the lights go out and the audience all sucks their breath in, waiting for the thing to happen, that thrill gets repeated continuously. There's nothing like it. You can have the worst day in the world trying to set all this stuff up, and yet the clock ticks, showtime comes, the lights go down and you experience that feeling.
I'm going to I'm going to sound like a shill on a couple levels, no pun intended, but you're asking me what my best story is, and I have two. The first time I performed with Queen as Darth Vader, it was mind blowing. See the movie, we'll talk more about that. But truly, and this is absolutely, positively true, and it gives me a chance to mention everyone's name. We talked about Mike Fiedler, Doug Houck, may he rest in peace, class of '78. Went out with Paul in '77 and '78. Mike Fiedler class of '81, went out with me. Wally Kasprzycki, class of '80, went out with me. Then Tony Ardizzone was the coda. He was out for a couple of weeks with the band. He's class of '78.
But Bill Greer, class of '81. The family line. And I would have no career without my teammate and friend, Paul Korzilius. Bill Greer, class of '81 will go on record, even though I think it's over-blowing, and say he wouldn't have a career without me. Because I was hoping to engineer a little surprise today, because Roland has been surprising me, as you saw at our presentation on Saturday. I was going to have Bill Greer join us for a few minutes. But ironically, Bill Greer has just put Dave Matthews on stage in Vienna, Austria, and he's been with Dave Matthews as the tour manager for 20 years after working with Kiss and Madonna and other acts.
Well, Bill was my roommate at Northwestern at DU. We worked more concerts than anyone. And then when Paul got Queen to hire me, my first call was to Bill, who couldn't work with Queen because he still had a year of football eligibility left, and he wanted to play football one more year. So it fell to Mike Fiedler. Didn't fall far.
Another one of our teammates and great friends. There were six of us with Tom Ahem and Kevin Berg, and Todd Carnicom and Todd Sheets and Kevin Kenyon and Tim Lawrence Johny Schober and Jim Ford and all these guys, Timmy Lawrence. But it made me sad that Bill was the true rocker of us. Paul was an education major, I believe. I went in pre-law and went out as it were, as radio, TV and film. Bill Greer was a rock and roll guy. Hair down to his shoulders, played in bands.
It broke my heart that he couldn't join me. Well, four years later, I was tour managing my first tour manager's job. Because that's the graduation. You go from security-- the reason I got the Queen job is Paul had become a tour manager. Then I became a tour manager and Aerosmith called and offered me a security job. And I couldn't do it, but I was able to call Bill, who had just finished a master's, and was figuring out what he was going to do. So, Bill, I got Bill Greer.
I restored order to the universe and got Bill Greer back into the business. That's my happiest day in this business. That's not blowing smoke. That's my happiest day in this business, to be able to take care of my dear friend and teammate. And he's been in the business ever since then. So that's the family line. Paul Korzilius to me to Bill Greer.
MAX: Paul, Walt, Roland, thank you guys so much for being here.
