Women-Led Stories and Spaces in TV with Ilana Peña '13

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CAT RECKELHOFF: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a podcast where we talk to alumni about how key experiences have propelled them and their life's work. I'm your host, Cat Reckelhoff, from the Northwestern Alumni Association.

This month on Northwestern Intersections, we are celebrating Women's History Month by featuring a slate of incredible women-identifying guests, who are making meaningful impacts in their respective fields. Today's guest, who I am so excited to introduce, is Ilana Peña.

Ilana is creator, showrunner, executive producer, and director of the critically acclaimed Diary of a Future President on Disney+. Ilana was named as the 2020 recipient of Forbes 30 under 30 Hollywood & Entertainment and honored in Variety's 2021 Inclusion Impact Report.

She served as a writer on the critically acclaimed series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend on the CW, where she wrote multiple episodes, contributed song lyrics and was featured both on screen and on the soundtrack. Ilana is continuing to develop projects through her overall deal at CBS Television Studios, as well as writing features for Universal Studios and Disney+. Welcome to Intersections, Ilana.

ILANA PEÑA: Thank you so much for having me.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I'm so happy to have you here on the show today. Thank you, again, for joining us. So Ilana, I know in our previous conversations, you've talked about how foundational your experiences at Northwestern were and how there were a lot of experiences that really shaped you and that you've really brought in with you into the professional world today. So why don't we start at the beginning? Tell me what brought you to Northwestern and if you have any stories or experiences to share that really shaped you.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, I was really drawn to Northwestern from too young of an age to even know what I wanted out of a college. I went to a performing arts camp, an all-girls arts camp for years. And a lot of my role models that were older would go on to do the Cherubs program. And then they would go on to be theater majors at Northwestern. So they were like my heroes. They were the girls I looked up to.

So before I even had, like, an inkling of what secondary education even meant, I was like, I want to go to Northwestern. And I want to study theater. And then luckily, when I was in high school and it came time to think of that more seriously, it just so happened that Northwestern just really aligned with my interests and also the interest that I wasn't sure I had yet.

I loved that it was a liberal arts education, not just in the school, but within the theater department. I didn't want to be pigeonholed. I wasn't-- I was primarily focusing on acting at that point. And I didn't want to go to a conservatory, because there was a-- I also loved writing. And I also was interested in directing. And I loved that within the theater program, you could try a bunch of different things.

And then within the school, you had to try a bunch of different things. And it was sort of the openness of that curriculum that led me to playwriting, which led me to screenwriting and television writing. So I didn't know exactly what I was looking for at the time. But Northwestern helped me find it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Can you tell me a little bit about the transition from writing plays to developing an interest in writing for TV?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, so I never really-- I was just always a theater. I never really thought about TV writing or screenwriting as a a-- I just didn't really know how that profession would work. And then I got into the Creative Writing for the Media program, which exists still but in a different form. When I did it it was a two-year program for all the students. And every quarter we did a different sort of kind of writing.

We did a short film one quarter, feature film one quarter. And I was, like, loving it. And having only really written plays, it was very eye opening of, like, OK, what makes a screenplay? Why is this not on stage? Why are we filming this?

And then fall quarter senior year was TV writing. And it was kind of this beautiful coalescence between everything that I loved about theater, the character-driven element, the fact that it's super collaborative, that it's not just a writer in a cabin typing out words. It is-- the community makes it, and when I was starting to sort of love about screenwriting. And it just kind of combined all of those things. And I fell in love.

I really just-- and writing. I think is a really-- anything in the arts can be a very rocky-- obviously, there's not a clear path for anything. But I saw for myself and for what I was looking for in a career of really a clearer path as I had ever seen for what a career could look like.

I saw jobs that I could do as an assistant, as entry level, where I was still learning and growing and meeting people. I saw-- and then it was just like I was bitten by the bug. And I took a sitcom class. And I just wanted to work on it. So I was like-- I don't even...

I helped with casting. I helped with casting background extras. I just wanted to be on set, be part of it. And to this day, one of my friends, who we got close in Creative Writing for the Media, we still-- I was on the phone with her an hour ago. We still send each other everything we write. She wrote on my TV show. I just participated in a read for her. We-- those relationships were not just helpful in writing. They also gave me lifelong collaborators.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That is so wonderful. Thank you very much for sharing. It's kind of incredible the people that you take-- that you sort of take on the journey with you and that you still get to foster those connections well into your professional life and into your adult life.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah.

CAT RECKELHOFF: OK, so you're bitten by the bug.

ILANA PEÑA: [CHUCKLES]

CAT RECKELHOFF: You really want to be involved in TV. You love the community. You love the character-driven element. And you love the idea of collaboration. So you've graduated from Northwestern. What are you doing now, or what did you do then?

ILANA PEÑA: After Northwestern, I moved to New York actually, because I was still-- I was excited about TV and film and theater. And in my mind, New York was kind of a hub for all of those things, which isn't wrong, but LA is really where you can find jobs in the television industry.

So I lived in New York for a little less than a year. I had a couple 10-minute plays go up, and I worked in non-scripted. And then I'd never even visited LA. I visited LA for the first time. And it was sort of the first time I saw the fusion of what my passion was with a paycheck and being able to live and pay rent.

And I was like, I have to be here, because these are the-- I wanted to be, like, in the building, for lack of a better word. So I moved to LA. And I got a job on an animated sketch comedy show as a PA. And I was reading submissions and giving feedback and meeting people.

And then I worked on a period drama as an executive producer's assistant. I worked on this sci-fi comedy as a showrunner's assistant. And then I landed on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, assisting the creators, Rachel Bloom and Aline Brosh McKenna, which is-- that was the show that I really, like, grew up and became a writer.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I would actually really love to talk a little bit about your experiences on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, because I know you sort of started outside of the writing room. And then you worked your way-- you kind of worked your way through the ranks. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, I mean, I got really-- so much of this industry is luck. And you also have to have supportive, good mentors. And you also have to be at a position that has longevity, a show that has legs. And I was so lucky to have experienced all of that on Crazy Ex.

I-- Aline and Rachel were so unbelievably supportive. They saw me-- when I said that I was a writer, they saw me as a writer. And from the beginning when I was their assistant, I would-- me and the other assistant were writing. We were making character Twitters and writing jokes for characters on the Twitter accounts.

I would write, like, first drafts of award submissions. They were really trusting me with things and so much so that if I would have to bring something to my boss, to Aline on set when she was directing, Aline would be like, oh, here. Just like, this is what we're doing. Or even if she wasn't directing, this is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it like this. We're going again. She would really take the time to explain things to me and make sure that I had a foundation and a basis, because she knew I wanted to learn.

And then for season-- that was season 2. And then for season 3, because she knew I was a writer and because I had made-- I had formed relationships with everybody, and she knew I wanted to stick around. She asked me to stay on as writer's assistant for season 3, which meant that I had been in the building. And now, I was in the room.

And that was where I began my education as a writer. I-- as a writer's assistant on a television show, you take notes basically of everything everybody says. But you also-- if you have encouraging, supportive bosses, you are encouraged to pitch and give thoughts.

And I remember the first time I pitched a joke in the room that made it into a script. And it was my birthday, it happened to have been my birthday. And my boss, Aline, took out her phone and took a picture of me, said, like, Ilana just tweeted her first successful joke in the room on her birthday and put it on Twitter.

And I just was like, this is the environment that I want to be in forever. And when I am in that position, I want to cultivate. That is so special and so meaningful. And it just fueled the fire in me and made me want to keep pitching and made me want to keep working hard and learning and learn from those writers.

I was-- I got to write my first episode with Aline and Rachel season 3. And then season 4, I was a staffed writer. So season 4-- and, again, the show needs to have legs. Like, the show kept going, which was really fortunate and wonderful.

And then season 4, I was a full writer in the room. I wrote two episodes. I was on set producing them. I contributed song lyrics. It was just a really beautiful, supportive, wonderful way to sort of be introduced into that green job world.

CAT RECKELHOFF: It sounds so special that you had two women, who were so invested in your growth and giving you the opportunities to learn and then to pitch. And then when you had those moments of success, like being able to pitch your first joke that made it into the show on your birthday, they celebrated you and uplifted you.

I particularly think in the TV world, which still feels very predominantly male, being able to be surrounded by powerful, knowledgeable women is-- maybe the word is not rare but something really incredible to find, and then to continue to cultivate yourself.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, it's really special. I have heard-- I think it is happening slowly and should be happening a lot quicker. But it does seem like the tide is starting to turn in the industry, where the more women get in power, the more they empower other women. And that's the same with POC folks, Latinx folks. I mean, I just-- I felt so like appreciated and not tokenized, and just I felt like a writer.

And so when I ended up being lucky enough to have my own show, it was not-- it wasn't even like, oh, I want to do this, because I know it's a good thing. It was a no-brainer, because that's how I had come up. It was also a no-brainer, because I wanted ideas from everybody.

I wanted to mine everybody around me for ideas, because I remembered what I had felt like sitting in that writer's room practically bursting with thoughts. And it's like, I know that these are all like geniuses sitting here. And let's mine them for-- let's use that. And let's promote. And let's give episodes. And let's cultivate that kind of environment, because the talent is there.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I would actually love to talk a little bit about your show, Diary of a Future President, and about that environment. First, I would love to know what was the inspiration for the show. How did it all sort of start and come together?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, so I have always kind of wanted to write a show, like my own version of Wonder Years, a coming of age of-- I have this image of a young Latino girl on the side of a bus with her arms crossed. I just-- I felt like so many shows were about boyhood, celebrated boyhood-- beautiful, fun shows that I grew up with, like Boy Meets World and Malcolm in the Middle and Everybody Hates Chris and Wonder Years.

But I-- the ones for girls I felt were relegated more to young audiences, like Lizzie McGuire or Hannah Montana, That's So Raven. Those were not-- those were not necessarily as much co-viewing. Those were put on for your kids after school. And I wanted to make a show that was about-- with a young tweenage/teenage girl protagonist. And I wanted to make it a show for everybody. I wanted to make it like a version of Wonder Years.

And then I have kept all my old diaries from growing up. And just reading my literal sixth grade diary, where the way that I wrote and the way that I talked about things was so flowery and descriptive, and I was writing for this invisible audience. But I didn't want anybody to read it. And I thought that was such a fun way in and such a fun narrator of, this is somebody who's writing all of their innermost hopes and dreams, but writing it in a way that they want to make sure that everybody knows that they know big words.

And I thought that was really fun and then a lot of these stories that are these boyhood, coming of age stories or origin stories. And so I just started thinking like, what does this girl become? And I didn't want to make her necessarily become a television writer.

And I just kind of was like, well, why not just make her as powerful as I can and make the show show how somebody can get there, show that every someone started somewhere. Show that even the most powerful, even the most-- that the people who are heroes and role models that we look to-- they all, at some point, had their embarrassing middle school stories.

And I thought that it was kind of a lovely way to synthesize what I wanted to write about coming of age and, also, what I wanted to say of, we all have that 12-year-old inside of us.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I'm still thinking about your comments about writing for an invisible audience. I feel like so many-- so many women do that. It's like one day someone's going to look back at my diary, and they're going to see how I was so beyond my years and so mature and so smart.

And then you look back. And you're like, why did I describe this experience using all of these adjectives?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah.

CAT RECKELHOFF: And you're almost like if you experience sort of like a secondhand embarrassment for yourself, but then you're also kind of proud of yourself. Wow, I really committed my thoughts to paper. And I felt like I had something really meaningful to say, because my-- because that was my whole world. And my world was that small.

ILANA PEÑA: Right.

CAT RECKELHOFF: And now, my world is just bigger and more complex.

ILANA PEÑA: Well, and that was also a fun comparison, too, where when you are in middle school, everything feels like an international crisis. Everything feels like World War III. So just putting it through the lens of somebody, who ends up leading the country-- this was her United Nations. This was her situation room.

This was-- but for her, it's accidentally stealing a bra, having a crush on a boy, having a fight with your best friend-- the way that we all thought of those things as literally like World War III.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, because it's the kind of thing-- fighting with your best friend does destroy your world. It destroys your sense of comfort and your stability. So it's very much the same in your mind. And those experiences are so valid for young girls.

I've always sort of hated the way that adults say, like, oh, your problems-- they're so small compared to the rest of the world. It's like, well, your world is much bigger than mine.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that's-- I think-- and I-- that's another thing that I wanted to do, where it's like what I was saying about those girls-- I think girlhood, in particular, or young women or female identifying or not male identifying-- the stories feel-- people say that they are more superfluous. They just kind of assume the phrase guilty pleasure when it comes to watching something. Or it's just-- it's a tiny problem.

And it's like I don't know why a 12-year-old girl's problems need to have less weight and meaning than anybody else's just because her world is smaller. And I think there was also-- I pitched it around to different producers. And I had one production company, who, they were like, we love it. We're so interested. Can you age her up a little bit?

And I was like, oh, why, do tell?. And they were like, oh, people-- they can kind of handle young girls' audiences. This is a huge generalization obviously. But there's like a handle young girls and then obviously, like, the Riverdale High School. But they said there was, like, a purity issue for that sweet spot right within those two ages.

So, of course, I was like, well, then she must be 12. And I'm doubling down on it, because that is something I've never seen before. And there's reasons why. So I-- it was important to me to represent that particular age and these particular struggles.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I can't believe they said the quiet part out loud in front of you. [CHUCKLES]

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, and I don't think-- these were not producers. These weren't men. These were just-- I think they generally-- genuinely just wanted to sell a show. And that's what the marketplace had been looking for. It's just-- I am the kind of person that I hear what the marketplace is, what people connect to at the marketplace, and I'm like, OK, no. I want to change that.

And that might not mean-- my show only got two seasons, which is hugely lucky. But that may not mean that my show gets ten seasons. That might not mean that-- I think it's taking-- it takes people a little bit of time. It takes time for the tide to turn. But I am grateful and committed to doing whatever I can to help that.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I think you seem very committed on advocating for your writing and advocating for changing that tide and using whatever sort of power and leverage you have to make it happen just a little bit faster. So anyone who comes after you, their time doing so is just a little bit easier, because you made it a little bit easier for them to succeed.

ILANA PEÑA: I hope so.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I hope so, too. I actually-- I'm really glad you brought up Lizzie McGuire. It's not a hot take. I think a lot of people have pointed out being able to communicate with the older version of yourself. I believe she was played by Gina Rodriguez. There's a lot of comparisons to Lizzie McGuire's animated alter ego. I'm actually really curious about the decision, where she talks to an older version of herself as opposed to talking to sort of the more outspoken alter ego version.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, well, so the show always had this future self element, because we know that she becomes president. And season 1, it was actually really difficult to find the sweet spot of how much of the future we wanted to see.

We had actually shot way more than what ended up making it in the show. But when we came time to-- when we were in post-production, we realized, as dynamic as Gina Rodriguez is and as well-written as we could make those scenes, you wanted to be in the world that you were in most of the time. You wanted to be with these characters that you spent 25 minutes with. One or two minutes in the White House-- you were not going to connect as much as you were with the family that you were watching and coming back to every week.

So when it came time to do season 2, we knew we wanted to have Gina still in the show. But we didn't necessarily want to do flash forwards. And we were trying to find a way to sort of-- it was my co-showrunner's idea. He was like, what if we-- what we need to do is integrate her future self into her present self.

We need to find a way for them to be in scenes together, because that is the way that people will be excited, because those are the characters that we have fallen in love with over a season, not just because we've seen them for so long. And you fell in love with Gina, because she's charismatic as on screen. But you want her in the world.

And so that's how this sort of future alter ego was born. But then it was the other way around. Rather than us being like, how do we want Elena, the character-- who do we want her to talk to? We were like, we know she's going to talk to her future self. Why is it her future self? What does her future self need to say to her? What will her future self embody that is not something she can get writing in a diary, talking to her mom, talking to her friends?

And we kind of ended up-- it was really-- the writers' room was so hugely helpful. And we crafted something, where the-- Gina as Tess the actress's future self-- I think-- I always thought of it as the part of Elena's brain that knows she had this leadership skill and knows that she becomes president. It's the part of her brain that knows what her future holds.

But it takes us, in our journey of growing up, a really long time to access that part of your brain. So that's what we were able to have fun with this part of her brain, kind of teasing her and making fun of her and it being a fun Lizzie McGuire-esque alter ego, but with the knowledge that the dramatic irony that future Elena knows like girl, you're better than this.

But she can't tell her that. She has to let her get there. So that is how we ended up incorporating it. And it ended up being-- something that was initially presented as a challenge ended up being a really, really awesome way to explore this character, to explore-- they are so funny in scenes together.

And it-- every episode-- it was so so natural when we were writing, where it was like, OK, this episode, she will get to this point, because she'll talk to her future self. And then some episodes, it's like she doesn't need to. This episode she's going to talk to her mom. Or this episode she's going to have a revelation in this way.

And it just was so-- and such a natural way to embody Gina into this season that I think we stuck the landing.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, Gina and Tess have such a great dynamic in scenes together. You really are-- your belief is suspended that, yes, she's having a conversation with her future self. And her future self is sort of saying, I can't tell you everything. But you know what the right what the right move is. It's going to be maybe a little embarrassing and a little awkward. But you know what you have to do.

ILANA PEÑA: Right. Right, because you have that part of your brain. And you always-- and I think when you're-- especially when you're a teenager, but even me as a 30-year-old person, I thought that part of my brain-- I'm like, you roll your eyes at that part of your brain sometimes, because you're just like, I know what's right. But like I don't want to do that.

And I think that was just such a fun thing to put on screen, because we had a teenage girl, who could and did roll her eyes and be like, leave me alone! Like, I want to do things my way! And it was just such a fun way to explore it. It made me very excited about exploring those kinds of dynamics. That's what TV-- that's what art lets you do in general, right? You can-- you just tell the audience this is what this is. And they buy it, because you're doing it. It's just a really-- it's a cool way to write it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: It's a cool way to write, and it brings-- it creates the visual, I think, a lot of folks-- I think particularly young women have of having sort of another voice in their head that they talk to to help get themselves through situations, like the voice that we talked about. You have to do this thing. You don't want to. But you're 30 years old. You've got to do it.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah. [CHUCKLES]

CAT RECKELHOFF: Like, sorry. I have that conversation with myself. And then you're like, you're 30. You have to get up, and you have to go to work. Like--

ILANA PEÑA: Oh, yeah.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I'm sorry. This is just what you've signed up for.

ILANA PEÑA: No, I have them, too.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Thank you so much for that explanation and sort of the journey towards getting there taken on as a challenge and having it feel really natural. So another aspect of the show I wanted to talk about, because you recently received this GLAAD nomination, which congratulations. That's--

ILANA PEÑA: Thank you.

CAT RECKELHOFF: --incredible. There aren't many shows that really center queer joy. And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that. In your show, you really portray it as positive and humorous and joyful. How important was it to you to make sure that that was an element in your show?

ILANA PEÑA: Oh, my God. It's so important. I mean, we-- the writers' room was-- had positive, humorous, joyful queer writers. The creative team had positive, humorous, joyful, queer crew members. It's-- that's my life. That's who I interact with.

Obviously, everybody has their pain. But I wanted to-- for telling the story of a sweet, warm, coming of age girlhood growing up, why should that not apply to the queer character, as well? And I also, in terms of Bobby, the character's journey, I wanted to present what the world I wanted to see.

And the world that I-- we are not there yet fully. But I do think that there are parents like Gabby. There are sisters like Elena. There are journeys like Bobby. And I think the more-- it was really important to me to present that, because if you're sitting on the couch watching a TV show with your kid and you see that, consciously or subconsciously my hope is, if your kid then comes out to you, you have a basis.

So much of what we've been seeing in the media is if it's about trauma, we're sometimes programmed to think of this as traumatic, actually, if it's these programs that belittle or degrade the queer community, which we also see all too common, whether that's happening in real life or happening just by making fun of somebody offhandedly in a show.

And so it was just really important to me to see that and spread that message. But also just writing from a story perspective, that was Bobby's story. That was his family. I feel like if we had done anything else it would have been inorganic to his journey and his story.

When we started kind of crafting his coming out story, he-- the character-- his journey in season 2, yes, it's coming out. But it's also opening up. He's not-- he is a huge introvert. He doesn't talk about his feelings ever. And how we approached it, we were like, what does Bobby need? Bobby needs to learn that it's OK to open up. And it's OK to talk to people. He learned that through his coming out journey.

But it was not-- he-- just like anybody else, queer people don't only have one journey they need to go on. And it was really important to us to just tell this kid needed to get out of his shell. This kid needed to learn that he could talk to people he loved about things he was feeling.

What he was feeling and what he was experiencing was a queer coming of age. And it was just really cool to build that into that and to make that the arc, where, by the end, yes, he gets his first kiss with a boy. And yes, there's a fun love triangle. And yes, we celebrate all of that. But also this kid said to his mom that he was dating somebody-- man, woman, or, buddy thing, that is not something that character could have done in season 1.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, you-- his whole coming out journey is really interwoven into his development as a character. And it has this very realistic ripple effect like you said. And I think it was an incredibly salient point. There's-- queer people have more than one journey. And it's so much more than just coming out.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, and that's-- I mean, I'm-- another reason that I am bummed we don't get to keep telling this story, because I would have loved to show the queer joy of his relationship. I would have loved to show his coming-- and what I love, too, about the show in the world we've created is that joy is everywhere.

You see it in Jessica Marie Garcia's character with her relationship and how, even though she's not as comfortable opening up to her family, she still has that joy. And it was really important-- the queer writers in the room talked about process and everybody's process being different.

And this idea-- it was talked about in the room. Someone brought up coming out to yourself in the mirror, all of these experiences that were taken directly from our writers. Yeah, it was a really meaningful thing to explore. And Charlie, who plays Bobby, just-- he took it with such-- he was so honored to be telling this story. And you could really tell in his performance. He did such a great job.

CAT RECKELHOFF: So it's so wonderful. I think about it all the time. And I talk about it with my friends about how exhausting it can be seeing queerness associated with ongoing trauma or seeing the kill your gay trope, which is replicated on television over and over. So having queer representation that is joyful and having other people, whether they're queer or not, get to experience that and watch that is so important, and being able to understand these characters as being highly multifaceted.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, what-- I mean, that-- you can say that with any-- because that's also what I wanted to do with the Latinx community is a lot of stories that we see are about drug cartels or crossing the border or having to scrounge for pennies and make it in America.

And all of those stories are valuable and necessary in their own way. But I wanted to see a girl that had an ñ in her last name talking about her first kiss. You know what I mean? Not just-- because so many of these narratives are traumatic.

And I am extremely fortunate that my childhood was as warm and lovely as it was. But for the rest of the world to see us as full, multifaceted people, we need to see it all. So it was important to me. This is a Latinx family. But I don't-- and the community-- the writing community in Hollywood talks about this a lot. I don't love the phrase Latinx show, you know, the same-- because it's just a show. I don't have a Latinx life. You know what I mean? It's just I have a life.

So I-- whatever community it is-- the queer community, the Latinx community-- it's showing people as people, because that's who we are.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, and you're trying to show the human experience.

ILANA PEÑA: Yes.

CAT RECKELHOFF: What was it like to be in a leadership position and to be even in a mentorship position and uplift this next generation of young performers and actors, particularly young Latinx performers and actors, or even just crew members and other writers on the show?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, it was really special. And what was cool is I was having sort of a meta journey-- as young Elena was sort of learning what it took to be a leader. And we were in the writers' room being like, what are the things that make somebody the best leader? I was also becoming a leader and coming in-- not as a president, but as a showrunner and as a creator and as a boss.

And I-- it was a really magical, wonderful thing to cultivate an environment that was just like-- again, things that-- like, when Diary came out, people were like, this is revolutionary. And that actually was surprising to me at first, because I was like what? It shouldn't be revolutionary that a Latina woman is president or that a teenage Latina is starring in a show.

But people kept using the word revolutionary. And I felt similarly, I think, with the crew and the makeup of our cast and just what it was. It's like all revolutionary. But to me it was just like it's a no-brainer. It's like we're going to have the people on the crew and the cast and the writers' room representing what the show is and what the heartbeat of the show is.

So I remember there was a day on set, where Tess, who was 14 at the time, who plays Elena-- the director was trying to figure out the staging. And the director of that week was a Black woman. I'm on set all the time. Our line producer is a queer woman. Gina's around.

We're all just like so-- the women run the show. Women quite literally run the show. And that was Tess' first real full TV experience that she kept coming back for. And she was just like-- she was sitting. And then this director was trying to figure it out.

And Tess was like, oh, what if we're on the bed? What if we shoot this scene when we're on the bed? And the director was like, oh, my God. That's such a good idea. And we shot it on the bed. And it's episode 4. It's a beautiful shot.

And I had this moment when that happened, where I was like, she didn't say, like, excuse me. Can I-- I just have-- she just was like, why don't we shoot it on the bed? And that, to me, is just because of what she saw and because of the environment that she was in.

Even me as a boss, as the creator of the show season 1, I was more hesitant to speak up at certain times. And I had to learn and have my own imposter syndrome coming of age. But to see a 14-year-old girl in her first series regular role just being so-- embracing her ideas and feeling the freedom to say it and then being embraced and it working was-- it was such a tiny thing.

I doubt Tess even thinks about it, because it was not like she worked up the cour-- she said versions of this a lot. But it was like a moment for me, where I was like, oh, my God. We are making-- we are making something special. And we're in exactly the environment that I want to be in to make it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's--that is such--

ILANA PEÑA: I'm not emotional. [LAUGHTER] That's not what's happening here.

CAT RECKELHOFF: [CHUCKLES] That's the kind of story that would also stick with me, because you're suddenly 14 years old again. And you're like, I would definitely either stumble over my words. Or I would not say anything at all and kick myself for it later. And it's an incredible thing to know that you're fostering an environment, where young women don't have that kind of hesitation, because they're watching the other women in the leadership around them.

And they know that being able to just speak up without having any sort of qualifier or worry or have any sort of worry and just being like: Hey! I have this idea, as a fellow collaborator and as a fellow contributor-- I think it's something women stumble over a lot is having to feel like you've reached a certain age or a level of success or tenure to be able to say something without having to, first, buttress it with hesitation.

ILANA PEÑA: No, yeah, and to see-- it gave me a lot of hope for the future, because I was like, whatever Tess goes on to do, she's going to bring that energy back. I mean, watching Tess-- when we would have actors, who were doing their first day or would only have a day and Tess you did 20 episodes of the thing, by the second-- I mean, in the first season, too, but definitely by the second season, she was aware of the fact that she had more experience.

And rather than use it in a way that was like, oh, like, I'm better than you, she would-- if somebody tripped up on a line, she'd be like, oh, my God. That happens to me all the time. She would very much make them feel welcome and make them feel protected in a way that the lead of a show doesn't always do, let alone if it's a teenage girl. And I just was so proud of her.

And I-- because you see that trickle down. You saw that-- it's how the crew treats each other. It's how we treat the cast. And it was just a really lovely environment. And talking about it is making me sad that we don't get to go back.

CAT RECKELHOFF: You created what sounds like a really supportive environment that fostered confidence and fostered other people's ideas. And you created-- you created a really protective environment. And I know that's energy you're going-- you're also going to take with you into your future projects, as well.

I am really interested in talking a little bit about collaboration. I know it's something that you're learned a lot about when you were at Northwestern, and it's something that you very clearly value to this day. Like you said, you're trying-- you're surrounded by geniuses. You're trying to mine their ideas. Could you-- do you have any insights for successful collaboration or how to collaborate well?

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, I mean-- do I? I think that collaboration honestly is like a little bit of a hack, like a life hack, because it's so much fun if you are collaborating with the right people. And I think it's the fact that you get to still make something and have a beautiful end result. But the process is so much fun.

Honestly, this is maybe dumb, but-- so I found out that Diary was not going to air for a while last-- like around this time last year. And I was home in Florida. And I was like-- I had a week of being sad, because I thought I'd go right on to season 3. And if we weren't airing for a while, then that wasn't going to happen.

And so I was like, what do I do? What other stories do I have to tell? How am I going to fill my days? And I honestly just called people I loved. And I was like, I-- you are somebody that I know I want to work with you. It doesn't matter what. Let's build something together.

And both were-- the both projects that I developed this year for TV, I worked-- I supervised a Diary writer on a drama, and I co-wrote a comedy with a friend of mine that we'd been talking about forever. And it was just like the fact that I could fill my days just laughing and coming up with ideas with people that I loved-- I think that a lot of people-- I don't know-- think that there is a secret formula. It's just have-- like have so much-- the fun is what makes the good stuff happen.

I love having two brains on something. I love-- I mean, from a very technical standpoint, I love if it's like, we are meeting at 10:00 AM, because it's like I can't do-- I don't want to be late. It's not like I'm going to write at 10:00 AM, and then I don't actually get around to it till noon.

But, also, the way-- I just love seeing an idea go from something that I say offhandedly to something that a collaborator builds on. And then we build and build and build. And we make it so much better. It's like-- it's two brains. But it sometimes feels like a million brains, because we all like-- it's like-- I don't know superhero movies. But it feels like we all absorb each other's power.

And then it's just really-- I would just say do things with people you love and have so much fun with it, because that is the best-- the best stuff I've written have come when I've had the most fun. If you're not having fun, then it's probably not going to be as good.

CAT RECKELHOFF: It seems that you also really very much approach all of your projects and your collaborations with a lot of love, as well. Like you said, like, I'm working with people that I love. It seems like you really-- that's something that you very much put in the forefront, as well.

ILANA PEÑA: Yes, I-- to me, it's also like, what's the point if you're not-- we're not-- we're not curing cancer. We're not rocket scientists. We're telling stories. And everybody ostensibly who got into this got into it because they loved it. And they wanted to do it.

And whether I'm on a Zoom with a writer or leading a crew of 200 people or whatever, it's got to be fun. And it's got to be a good environment. And it's going to be human environment. Otherwise, why do we do this? We do this, because we were the kids that, for whatever reason, imagined different worlds. So why would we make it not filled with love and joy?

CAT RECKELHOFF: Of course, creating the world that you want to see and you want-- and you want to live in, and it starts very much with sort of building what you want it to look like for yourself and then hoping that sort of trickles out into our reality, because I think something that prevents us, I think, from thinking of a better world is often the lack of imagination and not being able to visually see it. So

When we have creators, who say, you know, I actually know what that looks like. And I can put it together for you. And I can do it in a show. I can do it in a book. I can do it in an image. It really helps to expand the imagination about what's possible.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, 100%. That's so well put.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Oh, thank you. What advice would you give to Northwestern students, particularly Latinx students, who are interested in going into television, particularly since the field is still pretty predominantly white and male. It might, I think, seem a little inaccessible from the outside.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, it's a-- I think that this industry has a lot of growing that it needs to do in terms of accessibility, because there are so many talented people out there, who-- it's an industry of who people know. It's an industry, where you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the access, no one's going to know. And I think that the industry has a lot of work to do in terms of providing access.

But what I will say, if you're a Northwestern student, in particular, there are a lot of Northwestern-- we are privileged enough that there are-- we have the basis of a Northwestern education. And the, quote, "purple mafia" is real. There is a lot of us out here.

I would say use your network. Let people know that you're out here and what you want. And be-- I always say, be loud and specific about what you want. When I first graduated, I would email any connection I had. And I would just be like, this is what I did in college. And I just want to work in TV or whatever.

I wasn't specific. And I-- and people love-- especially Northwestern grads-- love an assignment. I love getting an email that's like, hey, I just moved here. I'm looking for writers PA jobs, because then my brain goes like, OK, do I know that?

Or hey, I just graduated. Will you read my script and give me notes? Ask for what you want. You know what I mean? I think that people expect like-- and it's part of the imposter syndrome, too, where it's like, well, I don't know. I'll let them tell me.

And it's like, I had a boss once, where she's like, if you send me a script, tell me what you want me to do with it. Do you want notes? Do you want me to send it to my agent? Do you want me to-- you have to tell people what you want. They can't read your mind.

So I would say when you're not working or when you're using your network and emailing, if you're looking for a job, say you're looking for a job. Say what kind of job. If you want-- if you're looking for representation, say that. Send your script. If you want notes from somebody, say that. If you saw something on Deadline and you want to take a meeting with this person and you know that that other person knows them, say that.

Ask for what you want, because nine times out of 10, people will just be like-- if they can help, they'll be like, oh, great. Let me see what I can do. Or they'll be like, oh, I can't help with that. But let me see what else I can do.

So I would say be loud and specific about what you want. Cultivate community, I think, especially in this industry that's so white and male. A few writers-- a few assistants, who are writers from Diary, formed a writers group with a few other Latina writers. And they-- that community, I think, has been so helpful for them, as they rise from job to job.

As they have meetings, they do everything from practice, like pitching themselves in a meeting to giving each other notes on scripts. Cultivate community with the people that you want to be with. Find the people. Find your North Star and follow their stuff.

And if you are excited about working with them, like-- especially now with Twitter and everything, there are ways to just constantly kind of know what's up in a way that I didn't have when I was starting out. But yeah, I would say be specific and loud. Cultivate community.

I-- my friend and I started a workshop when we were assistants. And it was huge for us. And also just really hold on to your own specific voice. I think when I was first starting out, I was like, what does Hollywood sort of want me to be? And I was like-- especially as a young Latina writer, it's like, do I need to be writing things about this? Do I need to be doing that? Write the thing that you want to write that only you can write. That is what will get people's attention.

There is nothing I-- spoiler alert-- there's nothing Hollywood wants anyone to be except yourself. And that maybe sounds corny. And I know that the industry has a lot of issues. But it's true. It's-- nobody is looking for anyone to be trying to fit into a mold. They're looking for unique individuals with something to say. So say it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I think that's really fabulous advice--

ILANA PEÑA: Well, thank you.

CAT RECKELHOFF: --and very honest. I really particularly like what you said about the importance of building community and being able to have that support system.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, it's huge.

CAT RECKELHOFF: OK, can I ask you a fun question?

ILANA PEÑA: Yes.

CAT RECKELHOFF: What TV shows are you watching right now? What are you really into, you're thinking about? Are you obsessed with-- like tell me about a show that's in your brain right now or that you've been really enjoying lately?

ILANA PEÑA: The first one that comes to mind is Yellowjackets. I-- do you watch it?

CAT RECKELHOFF: So I binge watched it. I got the Showtime free trial. I watched all 10 episodes. And then I made my roommates watch it. I was like, you've got to watch this show. And then we all were like screaming the entire time.

ILANA PEÑA: Yeah, it's really incredible. I love it. It's a very inspiring show as a writer because of what they do with timeline. I-- a writer-- an old coworker that I worked with on Crazy Ex tweeted something like, Yellowjackets deals with teenage girls and 40-something women, which are two demos that are largely ignored but are like actually the best.

And I like-- it's so true. And just to see-- I think it's funny. I think it's scary. I think it's like-- it has 85 genres. I just am like-- I loved it. And I think anything with an ensemble cast like that of powerful women, who talk about letting people have journeys that are multifaceted and nuanced-- I just-- I love what that show does. And I'm very excited for more.

I need to be watching more TV. That's the big one that I watched that everybody watches. But there is-- if you have Showtime, there's also a show called Flatbush Misdemeanors.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Ooh.

ILANA PEÑA: It's very good. Season 2 is coming out later this year. I think that show is great. And that show is it started as a web series with zero budget. And it's very cool to see how they have kept the spirit of the thing that they made that was special, and to having a big budget. And it's very funny. And it's really raw and good.

I've always loved BoJack Horseman. A fun fact is I-- they have a recurring bit of not this friend Ila-- Pickles, the character Pickles, says, not this friend Ilana-- not my best friend Ilana, my other friend Ilana, is a joke Pickles says a lot. And that is based upon me and my friend Ilana [LAUGHTER].

CAT RECKELHOFF: [CHUCKLES] Oh, my God.

ILANA PEÑA: Because I--

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's incredible.

ILANA PEÑA: --I have a friend, who wrote on it. I-- yeah, I am plugging. I mean, I-- yeah, and so when you watch that, I am the best friend, Ilana, not the other friend, Ilana. But yeah, I don't know. I like all sorts of stuff.

I think that it's like people are saying that it's over-- the market's oversaturated. And I love it. I love that there's all different kinds of things to be watching, and so many creators are getting the chance to tell their stories.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I'm very much with you on that. I-- what an incredible thing to have so much media to consume. And there's really something for everyone out there. Streaming networks and the ability for writers to produce Netflix-only movies or Hulu-only movies or HBO Max-only movies-- we are getting those-- we're getting those stories that we wouldn't have normally gotten, because we've created additional platforms for people to write and for people to create something we've never seen before.

ILANA PEÑA: Well, and not for nothing. I didn't even realize it when I was plugging it, but my friend, who wrote on BoJack-- Northwestern alum. Co-creator of Flatbush Misdemeanors-- Northwestern alum. We're everywhere. We're everywhere. And we're making all kinds of shows. So if you're a Northwestern grad, recent grad, student, come out here. We're waiting for you.

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CAT RECKELHOFF: Thank you, listeners, for tuning into today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. For more information about our podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections. We will continue our celebration of Women's Heritage Month on the next episode, where we will be joined by award-winning Romanian-American historian, theater artist, and poet, Cristina A. Bejan.

Cristina will share how foundational moments and influential professors she had as a student at Northwestern opened her to the study of philosophy and how, when she arrived at Oxford, she pivoted to history, particularly Romania in the 20th century. We will also hear insights into her most recent collection of poetry, Green Horses on the Walls. So please tune back in.

And until next time, stay safe, and take care of yourself, your friends and your community.