Northwestern University Alumni

Transcript:

[MUSIC PLAYING] MAX: Welcome back to Northwestern Intersections, a Northwestern Alumni Association podcast. We'll be talking to alums about their career journeys and the lessons they've learned along the way. Our guest today is Hannah Jurowicz, a lawyer and club leader for Northwestern's Asian and Asian American Alumni Association, NU-A5. She works as Assistant Attorney General in the Special Litigation Bureau at the Illinois Attorney General's office and has experience with intellectual property rights and human rights work. Hear more about these topics and more in this edition of Northwestern Intersections. 

Hannah, thank you so much for being here. I want to hear, first and foremost, what brought you to Pritzker? What appealed to you about this school? And what was your life like as a student? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Max, thank you so much for having me. So Northwestern was actually my top choice for law school. And that was for a number of reasons. First, they had a really excellent JD/LLM joint degree program, where I could both get a law degree, as well as a master's in law for international human rights. And so I was really excited about that combination, as well as the professors that Northwestern had. 

I also really liked that they were the only top school at the time who was consistently interviewing or offering an interview for everyone who applied. I thought that that really spoke volumes to them caring about students as a whole person and what you could bring to the school beyond numbers and having an actual dialogue with people and getting to hear from alumni. 

And I also really liked that there was a strikingly high percentage of students at Northwestern who had actually worked before for at least one year after undergrad and in between, before going to law school. And I personally had worked in Korea for two years before going to Northwestern. I taught English both at a grade school as well as business English at corporations. And then I also worked for a nonprofit, helping them to publish a book explaining the history of the Korean sex trade and the work that they did to help women who were trying to exit. 

So that was something that really appealed to me and I think really played out through my entire four years at Northwestern. I remember every time I was in a class, no matter what the topic was, chances are there was someone in the class who had either worked in the industry or had been involved in the subject matter in some way that I thought really enriched the conversation beyond what we were reading on the page. 

MAX: Tell me about your first work experiences, whether this was during your time as a student or just leaving Pritzker. And how did Northwestern help you get into those roles or prepare you for them? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Sure, legal jobs, right? So I'll say that one unique feature of being in law school for four years instead of three was that it really afforded me the opportunity to have jobs during the summer that spanned a really wide scope. So a lot of students, when they go to law school OCI, or they're On-Campus Interviewing for law firms, happens their second summer. 

But because I had a third summer, I was able to work in a really broad range of sectors. So my first internship that I had was helping people-- direct client services at the National Immigrant Justice Center, helping people who had been trafficked, either for labor trafficking or sex trafficking. And I had gotten that directly through encouragement from the law school, from their career services, as well as the various connections they had in the Chicago community for even knowing that the position existed. 

And then my second summer, I got to work on the government side of that and actually worked for Homeland Security's Civil Rights office in DC. And I was able to work on the policy side of the exact same issues that I had done direct client services for the summer before. So it really afforded a very interesting perspective. 

And then I was also able to, then, my third summer, work at a law firm. And it was through there that I ended up liking it very much and kind of being surprised. I had gone to law school thinking that I was going to go directly into public service. But I really thought that assuming that you would work for decades, I was very curious about the corporate side, the commercial side of law, and serving clients in that way. 

And when I did my first summer with the law firm that I worked at, I kind of fell in love with it, which is maybe a strange thing to say about commercial law. But I really liked a number of aspects of it. So my first job out of law school was with that law firm. And I was there for about six years. 

MAX: One thing that I wanted to ask you about-- you've already touched on it a lot. A ton of the work that you've done has related to human rights in some way. Why is that such a meaningful topic to you? And what insights did you gain from law school that helped you work on projects like you did? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Sure. So I had always wanted to go to law school. I was the weird kid who-- I think I either wanted to be an author or a pet shop owner or a lawyer. And then as I got older and realized what those things entailed, law appealed to me more and more. 

I think of law-- what I really love is the power of storytelling. So I was an English major in college. And the most interesting classes to me were the ones that intersected between literature, storytelling, and concepts of justice, or literature, storytelling, and concepts of social memory, and how we remember, for example, the Holocaust. Who are the people who tell those stories? 

And so I feel like law really sits at the intersection between telling stories in compelling ways, translating those stories to people who maybe would not normally get a wide audience, whether that audience is a court, whether that audience is public opinion. And I think that when people don't have power, when they are subject to human rights abuses, to labor abuses, to other things, that you have to turn to what will work in an effective way. And if there are no effective means that can redress the harms that you have had, then you are going to turn to things that are violent. Or you will turn to things that are outside of the law. 

I think that it's really, really important to have a system of law and a society that is responsive to abuses that happen, because if it doesn't, something will happen, right? Other things will go forward. It's very important to have an effective form of addressing abuses. And so to me, that was why I ended up going to law school instead of getting a master's in English or a PhD in that because I really liked the intersection of power and storytelling. 

I think that Northwestern is just so powerful in terms of the experience that they give students. So they have an incredible array of clinical opportunities. So essentially, as a law student, you get to work in a clinic that's like a mini law firm that would be on various topics. And so while I was at Northwestern, I worked with their Wrongful Convictions clinic for people who were trying to get civil redress after they had been wrongfully convicted or wrongfully prosecuted. And I also worked for the International Human Rights clinic. I thought that those were really powerful experiences that brought everything together. 

MAX: I just want to ask you a little bit about your current job because it's such a broad field. And I feel like students have a lot of opportunities, which can almost be overwhelming if you're a student or you're just finishing up and choosing where to go. Tell me a little bit about the work that you do now. And is this what you expected as a student? Or is it really that experience that you mentioned that kind of led you on this path? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Yeah, so I feel like I actually wasn't aware of what the Illinois Attorney General's office did when I was in law school. It wasn't really on my radar, except that I remember when I was in my sixth year at a law firm, and I was trying to decide whether or not I wanted to buckle down and go partner track or whether I wanted to explore other options. 

And one of my classmates actually at Northwestern was working for the Civil Rights Bureau at the Attorney General's office. And that was how I first heard of it. Well, I'd heard of the office, right? But that was where I first heard in detail about the work that he was doing in the Civil Rights Bureau. 

And I have to say that one of the things I loved most about working at a law firm is that you're constantly working on really complex matters from a really wide range of issues. One thing that I've noticed from some of the work I've done as a student at various organizations is a lot of the work you do in public interest can sometimes be very narrow-- narrow and deep, right? You might work on housing issues and go very deep into that. You might work on-- as a public defender and go all in on that. 

I liked the range of issues that could get exposed to at a law firm. And one of the things I loved about the Illinois Attorney General's office is they're essentially the lawyer for the state. So they work on every issue that you're seeing that involves the state of Illinois. And the way that our office is structured, there's a public interest umbrella, essentially. 

And then within that, there are various bureaus. And so there's the Civil Rights Bureau. They do a variety of things. They look into if there's hate crime issues. They look into police investigations, things like that. There's the Workplace Rights Bureau that looks at workplace violations, things like that. 

The bureau that I ended up really finding my home in is the Special Litigation Bureau. And in that bureau, we essentially work on litigation matters across the range of the entire public interest umbrella. And so I found that that was a really wonderful fit for getting an opportunity to work on a broad range of issues but public interest, human rights issues that I deeply was passionate about. 

MAX: What's your advice to a student or someone who's just graduated on finding their, quote unquote, "fit" in the working world? Were there any experiences at Northwestern that sort of helped you along in your own journey? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: There are. So one of the things that I did in my fourth year of law school was I spent a number of months working in Malawi on death penalty work. And it was a really incredible clinical experience, largely because it was led by people on the ground. It was a project that was in very close partnership with the stakeholders in Malawi. 

And essentially for that, they were working on a resentencing for people who had been convicted of the death penalty who had never been given a sentencing phase, which essentially, they never considered mitigating factors or other things that you might consider because, at the time, it was an automatic death penalty. 

So I think one thing that I really learned in the months that I spent there are just the limitations of the law I think-- I've seen this repeatedly in every project that I've ever worked on is that you think, if everything goes well, if you win every single thing you're asking for, it's still not going to change everything that's wrong in that one person's life relating to that issue. And it's still not going to change probably the system. And even if it does change the system, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to change the day-to -day culture, right? 

And so I think that a couple really hard lessons that I learned both from the work at Northwestern as well as the pro bono work that I did while I was at a law firm working with convention against torture claims is that, one, there's no shame, I would say, about being passionate about something but, because for personal reasons, is difficult for you to work on. 

So for example, for the death penalty cases, a classmate and I, a close friend-- we were going through all of the various cases, trying to go through the files. And we had an agreement that if anything just hit a nerve in a way, you don't have to explain it. But someone else on your team can do that, right? 

I think that there's this sort of myth that you need to just push through. And if you really cared, you would do everything, right? Or if you really were strong enough, you would put aside whatever personal things you have relating to that. And the reality is you work on a team for a reason. And if something affects you for whatever reason, it's not something to be ashamed about. It's just something that you need to build into the practice you're doing or maybe how much time it's going to take. 

I think another thing is-- to do work with integrity, I think it's important also to be really cognizant of the mental health toll and secondary trauma that can happen with this work. And so I think I've learned-- some at Northwestern, they had some good services. But over the years as well, I think our office does a really good job of prioritizing the human who is working as well as the work. And if you can't do both in a sustainable way, then is it truly a success, right? 

I think that that's a really powerful thing to look for because I know other people who have been at various nonprofits who have had-- you know, jobs are jobs, right? They'll be good experiences, bad, no matter where you go. But I think there are some places in public interest where they don't prioritize, or they could do a better job of prioritizing, the secondary trauma that comes with the work. 

And [SIGHS] I'm sorry this is a long answer, but a third thing that I found was really impactful from the work, particularly working in Malawi, is if you're going to work on something that's difficult, part of the calculus of whether you take on the work, right? Because if you're going to do it, you have to be committed, and you have to do it excellently-- is whether or not you can stand losing. 

I think that if you work on death penalty cases, the reality is you may grow relationships over years and years with someone that, at the end of the day, will be executed. And if that potential consequence of-- not the consequence of your work, but the consequence of you choosing to do that work, is something that you feel like you won't be able to handle, I think there's no shame in thinking about that up front. 

MAX: I also want to ask you some questions about APIDA Heritage Month and your involvement with NU-A5. This is a really great way to stay involved with the Northwestern community. I want to hear about your experience staying involved with campus through NU-A5. Tell me a little bit about the work that you do in that organization and about any other similar organizations that you are a part of as a law student. 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Absolutely so as a law student, I was in the affinity group for Asian students on campus. And I really liked the community that we were able to build there. I was the chair for service work there. And so we were able to organize to facilitate students, not just Asian, any students who wanted to work, for example, for poll watching. 

So we volunteered with Asian Americans Advancing Justice in the community to do that. We also volunteered with the Chinese American Service League, helping them with citizenship classes, things like that. And it was a really great way to interact with the community. Particularly, I feel like, when you're a student, it can feel hard to get off campus, right? Or it can feel hard to get involved where you live. And so I thought that it was a really nice bridge between us as students and the communities that surrounded us. 

Since then, I joined the board of NU-A5. We're a very long acronym. A lot of them tend to be. But that stands for Northwestern University Asian and Asian American Alumni Association, so NU-A5, I will just say, for the rest of the podcast. 

NU-A5 is over 22 years old. And one thing that we're really proud about is that we've fundraised over $93,000 over the last couple of years to support the Asian American Studies Program at Northwestern. And so we've funneled money into there, as well as student programming and scholarships there. 

And something that really resonates with me is that we serve a very diverse community. So between 1990 and 2010, the undergrad Asian-American population grew from about 12% to 20%. And in 2026, the undergrad class is actually almost 27% Asian American. 

What that number doesn't account for is Asian is just a political term, right? It's a broad category. And there's a lot of diversity within the term Asian and Asian American. I think that our organization-- it's very important into us to recognize the diversity within that term, to recognize the different histories, the different contexts, and the different needs of various Asian and Asian American demographics within that. 

And similar to the-- love the name of the podcast, Intersections. I think that a really-- sort of a through line through the things that I've worked on and cared about are being able to be intersectional. I think that the idea that-- we talk about diversity and being stronger because of the various backgrounds people have. That comes in any way. 

I'm also involved with the affinity group for Asian Americans at my office. And one thing I love about that is that it's not just lawyers, right? It's people from all different-- it's from comms. It's from recruitment. It's from all different areas. The exposure you get to people's experiences and their backgrounds and their ideas and their perspectives just is irreplaceable. And it's a really great thing. People think of affinity groups as narrowing. But in that sense, it's actually very expansive. 

I was the chair of the Associate Board for the Chicago Committee. I laughed because it's kind of a generic name. There's a lot of Chicago committees. This one is for advancing minorities in large law firms. And what I really loved about it was there was such a diversity, both of ages, experiences, but also racial and ethnic groups in the boards. And I felt like, for example, the stereotypes and the biases and challenges you might encounter as a Black man at a law firm will look very different than what it looks like for an Asian woman. 

And so I thought that we, by coming together, were able to both recognize and address specific issues that various minority groups were facing while giving and amplifying the voices for everybody collectively. So it was a way of harnessing collective power and the diversity of our own experiences within that, while really very specifically trying to help all racial minorities within law firms. 

MAX: So thinking about NU-A5, what are some of the goals that you have as an organization? And maybe are there any topics that you are really hoping to discuss or bring to attention? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Well, one thing we really like about NU-A5 is bringing a large range of programming, so not just networking, how to network better. For example, we've had an event where it was Asian Americans in the arts on Broadway. We also had another topic that I thought is really under discussed but very common, which is the issue of egg freezing, and issues that were both culturally specific but also general about what are the considerations for that. And several board members talked about their personal experiences with that. 

And so I really think all of that is showing the diversity within our group, the diversity of interests. And a major issue that we also really want to highlight is to challenge the myth of the model minority. I think that there's a lot of misconceptions about what that is and why-- if it's good, the model minority myth is that Asian Americans are just submissive. And they what they're told, and they study hard, and they're good at math, right? 

And I've had a lot of people over the years say, well, that's not really a bad thing, right? And actually, it is for a number of reasons. First of all, the term "Asian American" is a political term. It's not a racial or ethnic background or demographic. And when you look at the history of Asians in America, there's a lot of racism. You think of the concept of Yellow Peril. You think of a lot of very demeaning stereotypes about Asians being lazy and shifty or all of these things. 

And the reason that it changed was kind of twofold. And again, it's political. So first, the stereotype was shifted very strategically, I would say, to be a political wedge. So during the civil rights movement, essentially, people were looking at Asian Americans, and they were looking at African Americans. And people were saying, well, if they can make it, why can't Black people? It's incredibly offensive, and it completely ignores the very different histories of these various groups. 

During World War II, another reason that that model minority myth started was our country wanted to start-- China was an ally, and so they wanted to combat negative stereotypes about that. And then secondly, post war, they wanted to very specifically target and recruit highly educated people coming into the country from various Asian countries. And so the demographic history just generationally was they were trying to specifically bring in people who already had high educational attainment. 

That difference masks a lot of the other struggles because there's also people from a number of Asian countries who have come as refugees or who have come in very different circumstances. And so blanketing all of that as a, quote unquote, "model minority," one is a political wedge that it implies very negative things that are attributed to race as opposed to very specific immigration history in our country. And then also because it masks the needs, the experiences, and the stories of a very wide range of people who don't have the same advantages. 

MAX: And before we close, I always like to ask this question-- if you have any Northwestern shout-outs that you'd like to give. I'll ask you that question, but I'll also ask you as we celebrate APIDA Heritage Month, are there any APIDA Heritage Month shout-outs that you'd like to give in addition? 

HANNAH JUROWICZ: Sure. So I'd love to just give a shout-out to the entire board at NU-A5. They're doing incredible work. I also would love to give a shout-out to my mentee. Northwestern, actually, law school has a really exciting mentorship program where you can mentor a student for four years. And so that means you mentor them from an incoming 1L law student all the way through their first year of working outside of law school. 

And so I've been mentoring an outstanding, really exciting, excellent human. Her name is Crystal. And she is now working in Boston in public interest. And so a shout-out to her. 

MAX: Hannah, thank you so much for being here. 

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