Authenticity, Kindness, and Vulnerability in Media with Liza Katzer ’08

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CAT RECKELHOFF: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a podcast where we talk to alumni about how key experiences have propelled them in their life's work. I'm your host, Cat Reckelhoff from the Northwestern Alumni Association, and I'm delighted to introduce today's guest, Liza Katzer.

Liza is a Southern California native from Palos Verdes Peninsula who started her career with a series of summer production jobs for the Entertainment channel while studying at Northwestern University. After graduating, she moved to LA and worked at United Talent Agency before moving to the Walt Disney company to work for both the feature studio and the international local language production.

She joined Bill Lawrence at Doozer Productions as an assistant when he signed his first overall deal with Warner Brothers and worked her way up to senior vice president. Her first producer credit came when her project Life Sentence was ordered to series at the CW.

Since then, she has continued on to produce Whiskey Cavalier, and just wrapped up as co-executive producer on Head of the Class for HBO Max. She is now executive producing the two upcoming Apple series Bad Monkey and Shrinking, and is executive producing season 3 of Ted Lasso.

She is an Emmy-winning producer for her work on Ted Lasso, which won the award for Best Comedy Series in 2021. She is also the recipient of a Peabody Award, AFI Honors, Critics Choice Award, a PGA Award, and was recently named one of Hollywood Reporter's 35 under 35 upcoming entertainment executives to watch. Welcome to Intersections, Liza.

LIZA KATZER: Thank you so much for having me.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I'm so happy to have you here today. I've been looking forward to this for such a long time. How was Miami?

LIZA KATZER: Gosh, it was really great. I was a little bit scared about going to Florida, especially in a pandemic state, but I loved it. And Miami was really fun. There was like a lovely levity that kind of came with-- you know, I think people there have been over the pandemic for maybe a little bit longer than we have in California, so it was just really nice to kind of jump into another world and get busy on a new project. And yeah, it's a new show we're working on called Bad Monkey that Bill Lawrence created and Vince Vaughn is starring in for Apple.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Oh, wow. So we have some projects to look forward to from y'all.

LIZA KATZER: We do, yeah. We are having a moment, [LAUGHS] as I like to say, based on Ted Lasso has been amazing and such a wonderful run for the company that I work at, Bill Lawrence's company, Doozer Productions. But one of the wonderful things is that it's led to a lot of new opportunities.

So Bad Monkey is shooting in Miami, and then we have another show that we're in pre-production on called Shrinking. Which actually, Bill Lawrence, Jason Segel, who also stars, and Brett Goldstein, who plays Roy Kent in Ted Lasso created. And that will be shooting in LA in April.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's wonderful. And I know you're in your awards season right now, and you walked away with a couple of really wonderful awards just recently too.

LIZA KATZER: Yes. So it kind of came out of nowhere, because I think everyone was waiting to see what was happening with COVID and where we'd be kind of in our recovery. But as of last week, all the events were on, and they were live. And so we took home a couple SAG Awards for our actors, Jason Sudeikis, Hannah Waddingham, and Brett Goldstein.

And then last weekend, we went to the AFI Awards and got honored for Ted Lasso, and I got to attend with a group of our writers. Most of our cast-- everyone is in London now, because we started production on season 3 a couple weeks ago. So it was really lovely to be home and representing all the team Lasso.

But then-- yeah. Then we had the Critics Choice Awards, and we were lucky enough to get four out of four that we were nominated for. So we, again, had three of our actors. And then Best Comedy, so that was very exciting.

And then just last Saturday, a couple days ago, we took home the Producers Guild Award for Best Comedy Series. So that was particularly special, because it was nice to be amongst other producers and within my guild. So yeah, we're on our season 2 high. And you know, it's a balance of the work is very hard and production is really challenging, but then simultaneously enjoying what we've done and celebrating.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Well, congratulations on winning all those really incredible awards. Like, you all very clearly deserved it.

LIZA KATZER: Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I feel fraudulent even--

[LAUGHTER]

--claiming credit, but it's such a team effort, and it's all led by Jason Sudeikis and Bill Lawrence. And you know, it really is Jason's brainchild. But then the combination of Jason and Bill just created this-- it just worked. Like, it really came together.

And you know, that can always go one way or the other when you bring two really strong creatives. But their combination just worked. And so it's been such a long journey and so many talented people involved, and I'm just very proud and humbled to be a part of it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's wonderful. You know, speaking of journeys, I think we should have our listeners learn how we got to this point, how we got to this point of this well-deserved critical acclaim, how we got to Ted Lasso, and I think we should hear a bit more about your journey. So why don't we start from the beginning? Can you tell us what brought you to Northwestern? And what were some of those really foundational and special experiences for you while you were a student?

LIZA KATZER: Yeah. Well, so what brought me to Northwestern? First of all, I have to say, I loved Northwestern, and I'm so proud to be a Wildcat. [LAUGHS] Any time I'm walking around-- and there are a lot of people in Hollywood and in this industry who went to Northwestern. And so I'm always seeing, like, license plates and hats. And I'm the person that's like, go Wildcats. So very proud. I'm so glad I ended up at that school.

I will tell you, embarrassingly, I applied to 21 colleges. This is-- glad we're diving right into my neuroses. But I was very indecisive at the time and didn't really know where I wanted to go. I did know that I wanted to be in the field of entertainment. So I was looking for schools that had a strong communication school, that had options for theater, for film, TV, radio, writing, producing. Like, I knew I wanted to be in that world.

And part of that was growing up in Southern California in Palos Verdes. It's about 45 minutes south of LA, but a world away. So you didn't really grow up in the entertainment industry with friends whose parents worked in it, but you knew it was there, because you could go into LA to see a show, or my grandmother lived in LA. So I knew that it existed, but I didn't quite know how I wanted to be a part of it.

The other thing I knew was that I had to leave Southern California. I was like, I feel, like, weirdly a fish out of water. Like, I grew up in this very beachy, Southern California, like, typical-- yeah. Like, very similar to Orange County. If you ever watched The OC, it was kind of--

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yep. Guilty.

LIZA KATZER: --a similar vibe to that. But for whatever reason, I felt much more drawn to the arts, and I felt like I was yearning for this kind of culture that I imagined was only on the East Coast. So I was like, I have to go to the East Coast. Made it about 2/3 of the way to Chicago.

But yeah, ultimately, when I got into Northwestern, I kind of just knew deep down that it was the right move for me. And then of course, I went through the motions of asking everyone else what their opinion was and asking everyone else where they thought I should go and pretending like I didn't know. But yeah, I'm really glad I ended up there.

CAT RECKELHOFF: 21 colleges.

LIZA KATZER: Yeah. [LAUGHS] My poor parents. I know. I feel like I should pay them back for all those application fees, but [LAUGHS] you know. Well, so I applied to all the UC schools. That was just extra boxes to check. I applied to-- yeah, just schools across the country. I just really didn't know.

And that was very typical of me at the time. Just had these sort of leanings and understandings of what I was interested in and what I liked, but didn't really have the confidence to pick a route and go for it.

So a lot of the people who were applying early decision, I was like, how do you know? I was so envious of people who just knew where they wanted to go and knew what they wanted to be, and I felt very confused, but very happy that I ended up there.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. We put such unfair expectations on 17 and 18-year-olds to already have their lives figured out and know what they want to do. And it's incredibly unfair, because once you get to school, you often find yourself changing your mind or wanting to explore other things and other subjects. Or even after you get out of school, you're like--

LIZA KATZER: Yeah, I can't even imagine the pressure that students are under now. I felt like it was bad when I was in school, and I graduated in 2008. I can't imagine what it's like now, especially with social media and having the awareness of what everyone else is doing. And of course, it's like the rosy, picture perfect Instagram version of what they're doing.

And yeah, I think I always identify as a late bloomer. It really took me a long time to sort of figure out what I wanted to do and hit my stride. And so I would hope that there is messaging to these students that there is no rush and there is no correct timeline. Like, faster isn't necessarily better.

And one thing I would say to my younger self, if I could speak to myself as an incoming freshman, just enjoy and explore and really take advantage of everything that the school has to offer, because you don't need to know exactly what you want to do. And it might change. Like, the person that you are at 17 could be an entire 180 from the person that you are at 34. And beyond.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Right. The evolution between the ages of 18 into your 30s, it's like you can almost barely recognize who that person was.

LIZA KATZER: I had that experience. When I look back and-- it makes me a little bit sad to say this, but when I look back on myself as a college student, I really don't connect with that person. And I think I was definitely kind of struggling and trying to stay above water, and just trying to show up every day and be present, but it was really hard for me.

And my memories are not as crisp as I would like them to be. It was all kind of a blur. So yeah, just slowing down and really just being present, and being able to take away everything the school has to offer. And I can't even imagine what it's like now. I'm sure the opportunities are endless.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. I mean, they really are. Students really do have the incredible, incredible benefit of a well-rounded liberal arts education and also incredibly supportive faculty and staff who will-- or rather, they're always very willing to offer support and guidance.

So Liza, tell me a little bit about 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old college Liza. What was she like? What were some of the experiences she had as a student at Northwestern? And why was she struggling to be present and keep her head above water? You mentioned that.

LIZA KATZER: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think-- you know, I'm very black or white. And when I was in high school, I had a very clear goal, which was to go to a good college. Like, I knew what my goal was. It was to get into a good school. And even at that time, everything was about the future. It was never about having fun in high school. It was like, what's that next move?

So I got straight A's. I was in every student council, theater, basketball. Like, doing all the things. And I enjoyed so many of them, but a lot of it was about getting to the next step.

And I put everything into getting into a good school, so when I got there and I didn't have a clearer path, it wasn't like, OK. Now I have to get into grad school or now I have to pass the bar. Whatever. It was like, I was very directionless.

And so I also, if I'm being honest, made up for a lot of lost time of being a little goody two shoes in high school, and definitely joined a sorority, which I actually got word is no longer in existence, so that should tell you a little bit. [LAUGHS] A little something about what that experience was like.

But yeah, I sort of leaned into being very social and having that typical college experience. Like, when I think back on freshman year, I don't really remember my classes, but I do remember waking up at 6:00 AM to go to tailgate at the football games or hanging out with all my friends in the dorms. And one memory that still is so clear, because I just think, like, how could I be this stupid, and--

[LAUGHTER]

I actually remember. Like, I won't jump to the-- I won't spoil it. But I jumped on a Greyhound bus with three other friends for Halloween to go to Madison, Wisconsin, with no plans. And so I just have this clear memory of stocking up in the Elder Dining Hall of, like, all the granola we could get in a bag and getting on the Greyhound, showing up on campus for Halloween. We were all dressed as pirates, three friends that I'm still very close friends with now.

And then it started pouring rain, and we were just, like, roaming the streets with no place to stay. One of my friends had a friend from high school who went to Madison, and they only allowed one student per dorm, so she got to crash inside. My other friend Libby and I ended up meeting with a friend of a friend and sleeping on their carpet in our soaking wet clothes.

And I remember laying on the carpet and just being like, this was a mistake. Like, what am I doing? This is not my life. How could I be this dumb? But I'm definitely glad that I had those experiences, because in high school, I was pretty straight edge and did what I was supposed to do. So in college, I let loose a little bit and definitely made some mistakes.

But yeah, I think to answer the other part of your question, I haven't really spoken about this in any sort of forward-facing way, so it gives me a little bit of anxiety. But I definitely want to share, because if it could help even one person, that would be amazing.

But I was struggling from about 16, 17 years old in high school with a pretty bad eating disorder that lasted me well past college. And along with that was anxiety and depression and things that I just had no awareness of.

So I really was in the weeds with those things and trying-- it took so much mental energy to show up, to get to class, to put on this face of, everything's OK and I'm having fun and I'm invested in all the things that my friends are. But then also having this sort of secret life of just this total food, body weight obsession.

Which of course now, looking back was really just a Band-Aid so I didn't have to feel or deal with any of the issues that I was really facing. So I think that also contributes to part of why it all feels like a blur and I don't have these really clear memories, is because so much of my mental energy was just wrapped around this obsession.

And it makes me really sad to think about that. But I also know how powerful it is to share, because it wasn't until I was out in LA and graduated and kind of on the next step of growth that I realized I was not alone at all. And in finding people who had that similar experience, I was able to start recovering.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Thank you so much for sharing that with our listeners. I agree with you. I think there's something really validating about finding other people who are struggling in a similar way that you are struggling, because it offers a name to what you're feeling, and then it also offers you a language in which to speak about these things, and to know that there are steps towards treatment and steps for healthy coping mechanisms and facing the problems that you're trying to avoid. But it's really, really hard to ask for help and to share and to talk about it openly.

LIZA KATZER: It's really hard. And to be honest, I don't even think I-- I thought my problem was my own. Like, I thought I was terminally unique and no one else struggled from this, and I was such a weirdo. And it didn't even cross my mind that other people would be experiencing the same thing.

But I felt very alone, and I did not even think to reach for help or ask for help. And it just seemed like something that I just needed to overcome myself. And of course, if you've had any experience with that or know someone who has, it really is beyond your own will.

Because of course, we don't want to be doing this. So if we could stop, we would. But I just really-- I really did not have the tools to stop. And that's really why I share, because I think that's kind of the only way, is just finding community and realizing you're not alone.

And then as you said, giving a language to it and being able to understand. Like, first it's having the awareness. And I really didn't have the awareness, so it took a while to get that awareness of, what's going on? And then starting the process of making changes.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, again. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very powerful part of yourself to share. And I know that there are probably Northwestern alumni who can very easily relate to that, and who probably also feel that some of their experiences as a student existed in sort of a blur because so much of their mental energy was just being used to get up and go to class and do what they needed to do as a student. And that definitely conflicts with your ability to maintain crisp and clear memories.

LIZA KATZER: Exactly. And you know, I always identify as a late bloomer, and I think that's such a big part of it. You know, in earlier years when I wasn't really ready to share about that or didn't want to quite be honest or go into the details, I didn't really have an explanation. I'm just a late bloomer, and I've always started late. But it really was this. It was that I did not have the mental capacity to evolve in certain ways, and so yeah. It's just taken longer.

But I think part of what I love about being in the field I am now is that you actually do have a voice to talk about some of these issues. And a lot of the issues that led to me as a young 16-year-old in high school, thinking I-- having the perfect body was the answer. And of course, we know it's not. Like, who cares? That's just the mask for whatever else is going on underneath.

But it seems so important to look a certain way, because growing up with these images that are so powerful, and especially being a kid of the '90s where it was like, oh, this is what a pretty girl is, and this is what a happy family is, and this is what a perfect relationship is, and this is how a woman acts, and this is how a woman speaks. Like, that is so much more powerful than I think we realize. And I just really want to be a part of the change of what images and ideas we put forth, because it is so powerful.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Especially now with the way that our world-- we have these worlds inside of social media. And I can't imagine being a 16-year-old now with TikTok and Instagram and Snapchat.

LIZA KATZER: [SIGH] Yeah.

CAT RECKELHOFF: And seeing other people's lives quite literally through a filter and not knowing what's healthy or unhealthy. But internalizing that. Even as a 30-year-old, I've internalized some really unhealthy ideas from social media that I am currently trying to unravel. It permeates so easily, even if you're aware of it.

LIZA KATZER: Yes, it blows my mind. And I actually have to make fun of myself, because I'm obsessed with talking about social media. And any time I'm asking parents or I'm meeting with parents, I'm like, what do you do with your kids? How do you monitor them? How do you keep their mental health in check?

Because as a person who kind of grew up thinking the grass is greener, always comparing myself to other people or outsourcing other people to make my decisions, I could not imagine the added layer of seeing in real time what these other people are doing and how they're acting, and what parties they're getting invited to when I'm sitting alone studying on a Saturday night. Like, I can't imagine what it's like for kids growing up in this time.

And so yeah, it's just-- I see the conversations happening. I don't have kids yet, so I don't quite know the answers. But I hope that we can set up some sort of way to change it. Although at the same time, I guess we don't really have control. People are going to put out on their social media what they want.

And as a kid, I guess just as parents, you try to teach them everyone has different lives, and what people are putting out-- their outsides don't necessarily match their insides, and providing-- it always helps me to read about, see, hear those examples of, oh, this person who you look at and think is perfect and want to be like, this is what's actually going on. This is what they're actually struggling with or what they're actually going through. So that transparency, I think, and honesty is really important.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, it totally is. It's something that even adults have to remind themselves when they see someone their age. Like, I think about how I'm at the age where everyone that I grew up with is announcing engagements and pregnancies and these major milestones that I'm not close to yet at all.

And I have to remind myself that their journey isn't mine, and I actually don't have to benchmark against them, and it's totally OK. But there are some days where it's really hard to tell myself that.

LIZA KATZER: Oh my god. It's so hard. And I really, as a late bloomer, I struggled with that too where I felt like I was-- I didn't date. I didn't have a boyfriend all throughout college, and that drove me insane. And then I think I probably had my first relationship in my early 20s. And then of course, same as what you were saying. Everyone started getting engaged and married and having kids, and I've always kind of been behind the curve in that.

And now that I'm at this point in my life and career, I'm kind of seeing, oh, this is why, or oh, this makes sense for me. And I'm really internalizing it and owning it and being OK with it. But for so many years, I just wanted to be like everybody else. I wanted to, you know, keep up with what other people we're doing.

And it's really hard to stay in your own lane, to put up the blinders. Everyone else is on their different journey, and you don't know what they're actually going through. And I never want to wish this on anyone, but a lot of the people who are getting married now might be divorced later. And like, who cares? Everyone's doing their own thing. Nothing is better or worse. It's just different. And we're all so different. Everyone has such a different path.

And it's such a relief to kind of be on the side of actually internalizing it. Not just knowing it, but to actually feel it and be OK. Took a long time. [LAUGHS]

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I'm not quite at the internalizing place yet. I'm at the awareness portion. But I want to go back to what you were saying about being part of the change in media and the way that we see ourselves and the way that we have these conversations, because I think a lot of the work that you are doing is very positively contributing to the way that these conversations are changing for the better.

So I wonder where is a good place to go from here. Should we talk a little bit about your time out of school and eventually how you made your way over to Doozer Productions where that work really started to begin for you?

LIZA KATZER: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Let's see. So I graduated in 2008, and I was-- so I actually-- sorry, backing up. I did start as a theater major, because I loved doing musical theater and plays and always did them growing up, but I sort of knew that I did not want to become an actor. So for-- I don't know who planted this in my head, but I just had in mind, like, I want to be a producer. Didn't really know what that meant, but it kind of had a good ring to it.

So I graduated school. I came out to LA. I got a job at a talent agency, which I tried very hard to avoid, because I sort of knew, like, this probably isn't for me. I always say, like, I'd seen Entourage. I knew what Lloyd's life was like. It seemed miserable. Ari Gold was always yelling at him. I really didn't want that.

And I tried so hard, but I did find myself at UTA at an agency. I worked for a motion picture lit agent, so I was in the film side of things. And the agent that I worked for represented writers. And it's funny, because a lot of the writers that he represented are now people that I have met with and worked with, and so it's really come full circle.

But yeah, I did the thing that you're supposed to do. And I really didn't like it. I was 100% right that it was not for me. And exactly a year to the day I left, because everyone said, you have to do your year at an agency, so I did my one year to the day.

But I will say, looking back, I'm so glad I did it, because those connections launched me throughout my entire career. So any time that I was looking for a new job or needed to get advice on something or get a script or find out information about a project, I went to those peers of mine who had kind of come up with me as assistants.

And yeah, I think if you are going the route of being on the business side, whether it's an executive or producer or whatever, it does kind of help. You don't necessarily need to have it at an agency. I think you can get that kind of global entertainment perspective from working at a management company. And of course, there's no right way to do anything. You could end up anywhere by any route.

But the connections that I made and then the camaraderie of having this giant group of assistants who are all struggling in the same way and then going out and blowing off steam together, it was a good experience, and I'm glad I did it, even though I hated it.

[LAUGHTER]

Yeah. And then after that, I went to work at Disney. And I worked for-- again, I was in motion picture lit, so that led me to work at the feature studio at Disney.

And so I worked for an executive, an EVP who was the lead on all the Bruckheimer films. So he was working on giant tentpole movies, and I got to learn a lot from that experience. And that much more pleasant. You know, Disney is really the happiest place on Earth, and I got a silver pass, and I could go to Disney whenever I wanted, which was a nice perk.

But from that I realized oh, I really want to be in comedy, and I really want to be in TV. So the boss that I had ended up getting moved over to be the head of local language film. So we were making Disney-branded films in emerging markets, which was very interesting, because we were making movies in China and Russia and India and the Middle East.

But ultimately, Disney ended up folding that department, so I technically got laid off, which I was not happy about at the time, but ended up being the biggest gift of my career, because it forced me into TV and comedy, which is where I knew I wanted to be. And that was the job I got during that post-layoff of Disney. I ended up as an assistant to Jeff Ingold who runs Bill Lawrence's production company, Doozer Productions.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Oh, wow. OK. That's kind of incredible. So I like that you go to Disney, and then you get laid off.

LIZA KATZER: Yep. Very humbling. I recommend everyone get laid off. It's a very humbling experience to have. [LAUGHS]

CAT RECKELHOFF: There's something about leaving a job, whether it's of your own volition or not, that kind of forces you to ask yourself, what do I actually want to do? And what are the steps that need to be taken to actually go for it? So that really sounded like an opportunity for you to fully pursue comedy and TV, which is what you really wanted.

LIZA KATZER: Yes. And it's funny. Looking back, I have so much more clarity on how all these pieces came together. But I am a person who likes stability and doesn't like change. So I would have sat in that job and kept going at Disney, because it was very comfortable. I liked everyone I worked with. My day-to-day was very pleasant.

And I grew up-- I think part of that in looking back is, like, grew up in a very kind of unstable, chaotic household. And so having the stability in my workplace was something subconsciously that I was really clinging towards.

So without getting laid off, I wouldn't-- I don't-- or it would have taken me much longer to move into TV and comedy. And so yeah, at that moment it was like, OK. Get on the phone. I called all my agency friends. One of them said, hey, I heard Bill Lawrence's company just got a brand new overall deal at Warner Brothers. They're hiring an assistant.

I had already been an assistant for a few years, and I was in my mind over it and ready for a promotion. But of course, humbled myself, took a position as an assistant at Doozer. But there was something a bit different about it, which was I could tell immediately, like, oh this is a place where I can grow.

And when I met with my boss Jeff, you know, he was like wearing tennis clothes, about to go play tennis, and then heard about Bill and what a nice guy he is. I was like, OK. This feels like-- I like these people. [LAUGHS] This is kind of a difference from the intensity of the agency and even the seriousness of being on the film side of things.

So yeah, I just immediately saw this opportunity for growth. I knew that Bill had aspirations to grow a company beyond just showrunning one show at a time. And it was comedy, which was an area that I was genuinely interested in. So naturally, I just found myself going to comedy shows and getting the lay of the land in the comedy space.

And that became very helpful when we were casting, because as a 25-year-old, I knew all the up and coming talent, and so I would constantly feed in different names of people, many of whom we ended up casting. So that kind of set me apart as like, OK. She has good taste. She knows people. She can be helpful to us beyond scheduling and phone calls. And so that's when I started growing.

And then my boss was incredibly kind and let me join his meetings, and then I would set up meetings of my own that he would join. And so I realized too, the intensity and the thick skin that you really needed at the agency, I just did not have that yet. And so being in a place where I was more positively encouraged was super helpful for me at that time before I had my own confidence.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, it sounds like you had-- you were working with managers who really were invested in your growth, and who saw how hard you worked and recognized you as the tastemaker that you are. I've read in several interviews where they've--

LIZA KATZER: Oh my god.

CAT RECKELHOFF: --where they've said that about you and how good your instincts are. [LAUGHS]

LIZA KATZER: That is very kind.

CAT RECKELHOFF: And they saw that in you and were like, we need to foster her growth. She's going to grow here. And they recognized that. That's very special. Not everyone has those experiences, so that's great.

LIZA KATZER: Yeah. Thank you [LAUGHS] for saying that. And it's funny, because I adore both my bosses, and they're also, you know, men of a different generation and a different life experience, and they're friends. And I'm obviously kind of operating on my own sphere a little bit at the company. There's five of us. So it's Bill, Jeff, me, and then we have two assistants.

But I think it was-- kudos to them for-- you know, I think a lot of people maybe wouldn't see that in their assistant or weren't encouraged that. And they really encouraged it. So I felt confident bringing ideas forward, whereas if I was in a place where maybe I was shut down early on or someone was like, that's not your job, I never would have done it again.

So they were like, oh, that's great. Bring them in. Let's meet them. And so I was like, oh, this feels good. Like, it just-- it helped me. It really motivated me. And that's something that we'll probably cut to when we talk about Ted Lasso if we do.

But that is something that is very much in that show, which is like, why do we have to be mean? Can't we encourage people through kindness and positivity? Having a boss who set the tone of kindness, openness, encouragement was so hugely helpful for me as a fairly, at that time, insecure young woman who maybe didn't trust her own voice. It just really-- it makes me think a lot about the type of leader that I want to be and how I want to encourage people to share.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. You have brought up two points that I really want to talk about. The first is how you're doing that and how you're encouraging others to grow, and how you're really using your own leadership to help build up others and uplift other people's voices. And I also want to talk a little bit about Ted Lasso. Is there any particular place you are excited to start?

LIZA KATZER: Well, I guess-- this will probably organically lead into Ted Lasso, so I'll answer the first part of your question. It's funny, because I think-- because it's such a small company, kind of played the same role for a long time. Even though I've been promoted past being an assistant and have gone on to now be an executive producer on our projects, I still kind of fit in the same position of Bill, Jeff, me, two assistants.

But now that I'm at this place of-- or we are at this place of growth because of the success of Ted Lasso and other shows and being able to expand, I really find myself as my bosses did to me encouraging the assistants below me. Like, go out. See comedy shows. Go on-- and now it's different. Go on TikTok. Go on Snapchat. Like, tell me who the new talent is.

I have no ego. The idea never has to come from me. We succeed together. Like, ultimately success is our shows being watched and liked by many. So whether that idea came from me or you, it doesn't matter. Like, let's all work together and trust each other and give each other a chance.

And so I like to try to encourage that. And again, when they have a great idea, I share it with everyone, and I give them credit for it. And I, as my bosses did with me, invite them to join meetings. And if it's someone that they've discovered or a script they've read, I'm like, great. Set that meeting and we'll join together, and you can-- I'll lead it now, and you can watch how I lead a meeting until you're ready to lead a meeting.

And it's just about, how do we grow and succeed together? And really getting-- like, stripping away the ego, because I realize I'm lucky. I'm in a small place. Politics, political-- office politics don't come into play as much as they do in other places.

So I know it can be more challenging, but just really getting rid of that [LAUGHS] kind of competitive atmosphere, especially in a creative field it just really doesn't serve. Like, when we put our heads together and we talk about things and we all bring ideas to the table, hopefully that creates the best project. And having fear-- for me especially, any sort of fear or competition does the opposite.

[LAUGHTER]

CAT RECKELHOFF: That was a really great answer.

LIZA KATZER: Oh, thank you. [LAUGHS] I also feel especially-- I have a soft spot for other women. I do realize that it's still a very male-dominated field. When I look at the call sheets or the credits of our shows and other shows in the industry, most of them are still very male-dominated. And so encouraging women to speak up and participate is also an area of focus. And I think everybody's so different, I would never want to generalize.

But for me and for a lot of the people-- the other women in my orbit, we came up in a time where especially as assistants, it was about being kind, being agreeable, making other people's lives easier, saying little, just kind of like, do your job and don't be annoying was the goal.

And so transitioning-- and I often find myself trying to straddle this line of, I want to be bold and strong and respected. It is still important to me to be liked. [LAUGHS] And I know that can sometimes be something that's maybe traditionally more female, and especially coming up in a world where that was the goal, was just to kind of be quiet and kind and serve the people ahead of you.

So just growing and redefining who I am as a woman, how I operate, how I communicate, how I gain and show respect, while also being kind. Yeah. It's just something to think about, and it's constantly evolving. It's so fascinating to me. And I often wonder, like, do men do this too?

CAT RECKELHOFF: [LAUGHS]

LIZA KATZER: I'm like, I feel like they kind of just say, this is what I want to make, or this is what I'm worth. And I'm like, well, am I worth that? And how do I communicate that while also being this? And da, da, da, da. I don't know. I don't know. It's something that I'm still working on.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I don't know if men have to have to ask themselves those questions. I think they-- I think so much of the world has been built for them that they can just say what they want. I think about-- I don't know who said this. I wish I could actually have a name to give them credit.

But someone once said-- maybe I watched it on a TikTok. They said that men enter spaces and they already feel like the space is theirs to occupy, whereas women enter spaces and feel like they have to shrink themselves down to be in that space. And I think about that very often.

LIZA KATZER: Oh, totally. It's as subtle as just even how we sit. And we cross our legs and we cross our arms, and I try to make myself small, versus just owning the space, taking up the space. Like, why? And it's all wrapped up in the body image stuff too. But just this femininity and smallness and taking up less space and being quieter.

And you know, when you started talking about entering a room, what I thought you were going to say is like, men enter the room as if they already belong in that space, and I only enter a room if I feel like I've earned the right to enter the room.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Yeah. That's also true.

LIZA KATZER: Do I belong in that room? Have I done the work to be in that room? Does someone else think I've done the work to be in that room? Maybe I should wait to be in the room next year. Maybe by next year, I will have earned it.

It's like, I don't know. I don't know if-- [LAUGHS] I think unfortunately, a lot of women still struggle with that. And as I get older and I do gain more confidence, it definitely changes, and it's definitely dissipating, but it's still very present. And it's something I think about, talk about, am fascinated by.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually think this is a really great pivot to talk a little bit about Ted Lasso and to talk about some of the really incredible female characters that are in the TV show. I'm thinking about Rebecca. I'm thinking about Keeley. I'm thinking about their friendship and how positive it is.

Like, they could have been characters that would have been easily pitted against each other, but instead, they make up for the insecurity that the other has, like Rebecca with her business acumen for Keeley who is trying to figure out what her career looks like and what she wants her life to look like. And then Keeley kind of lends Rebecca her knowledge of the dating world and romance, because Rebecca's sense of self has been so destabilized by her husband dating a younger woman, also named Rebecca.

And instead, they hold each other accountable and give each other what the other person is lacking, and giving them that wisdom. And their relationship is really beautiful, and I just kind of rambled on for--

LIZA KATZER: No, I-- that was such a good-- you summed it up so beautifully. I'm like, yep. That's it. But just as you were saying that, it kind of made me think a little bit about what we were talking about earlier, about just being a leader where-- and I think, unfortunately, the stereotype is that the older woman is going to be envious and bitter of the younger woman, and you absolutely think that those two are going to be pitted against each other.

And that was something-- I'm trying to remember back, because that was very intentional to make them friends and to go against that trope. And it's so subtle, but it's so powerful. And it also makes me think, why is this so groundbreaking? Why are two women of different ages and spaces in their life, why is their friendship this groundbreaking thing that we have to applaud in the year 2022?

That being said, thank god it exists, and I hope we continue to do that, and other shows do that. And again, that's why I like the media and film and television, print, everything is so powerful, because by showing that, it just kind of becomes reality.

When you're younger and you're impressionable and you see, oh, this is how powerful, beautiful women relate to each other-- they compliment each other, they lift each other up, they give each other opportunities, as opposed to maybe in years past, fighting to get the guy, fighting to get the job, fighting to be the one woman who is allowed in this space of men.

It's just so important, and it's so powerful. And I'm so proud of that relationship with those two. And they're both such incredible actors and incredible people. Like, genuinely are wonderful people.

And I can say that about everyone in the show. There's something very special about-- and this is Jason and Bill and also the other creators, Joe Kelly and Brendan Hunt-- like, fostering this environment and practicing what they preach, and really living what you see in terms of the kindness and vulnerability that's encouraged in the writers room.

You know, we have amazing women on staff. Their voices are very heard, and that's why you get to see relationships like that. That may be-- and I'm not saying that this is what happened, but maybe men of a certain generation wouldn't necessarily write because that's just not what had been done in the past.

And so creating these pathways for younger female voices to share and to say, no, this is actually how it is, and this is what it should be. And then having their voices heard and getting to see those changes reflected on screen is really, really awesome.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, because we can tell when a female character has been written by a man. We're like, she would never do that. It's like, no one's going to act like that. Who wrote you? And then we know it's a guy. It's all like the male gaze.

LIZA KATZER: Totally. And they're very similar characters. They've been written year after year after year. And even when I started in this business 10 or-- no. I started-- I've been at Doozer for 10 years, so even further.

But you know, 10, 12, 14 years, whatever it's been, I remember some earlier shows and casting. It was still very much like the most beautiful actress is getting the part and the roles being very stereotypically like the hot, young, sexy waitress. The old, washed up, bitter, wine-guzzling sister. Like the-- you know. Stereotypical characters.

And this is why representation in writers rooms is so important. It's not just about checking boxes or having, like, oh we need a female, or oh, we need a person of color. Like, you need them because you-- like, we need their experience.

And it's nobody's fault, and no one is trying to do wrong by these characters. But if you don't have the experience, you can't really write to it. And so that's when the authenticity shines through, is when it's represented in the writers room.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Like, everything about their friendship watching as a woman, I believe because the things that they say to each other to lift each other up are the things that I would say to my friends. Or the accountability that they have for each other, that's the kind of accountability that I see other women in my circle or other women in general practice with each other.

LIZA KATZER: And I think-- you know, it's funny. The actresses who play those parts are so grateful to the writers, and especially the female writers on staff. In fact, Hannah Waddingham, who just won her Critics Choice Award for Best Supporting Female Actress, specifically thanked Jane Becker, one of our senior female writers in the room, because it starts on the page. And she's like, thank you for giving me this material and trusting me with this very personal, specific experience.

And so I really love-- that just made me so happy when she did that, because she's absolutely brilliant as an actress, but there's so much more that goes into creating these characters, and so much that's going on behind the scenes that maybe doesn't get the glory and all of the interview questions and all of that. So that was really cool. And just, all the writers on that staff are brilliant, and everybody involved is really amazing.

But again, it is this environment. And it's very Ted Lasso. It's like, every voice is important. Like, Ted Lasso season 1 to Nate. Like, no, speak up. What you have to say is important. And when you give someone that confidence and you encourage them, they can grow sometimes for good or evil. [LAUGHS] With that character.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Nate's character arc still makes me so upset. [LAUGHS]

LIZA KATZER: But it's also so real. Like, I love it because I'm like-- but this is what happens when ego grows and ego goes unchecked. And he's not a bad person. He grew up with people telling him he was shit and not paying attention to him, and not giving him the good seat at the table, and not getting the respect.

And so sometimes you can turn that into a positive and make changes going forward with how you treat people, but then other times it hardens your soul a little bit. And so I think it's-- I'm glad we're doing that. And everyone will just have to see what happens in season 3 with that character.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. I remember watching the finale with my roommates, and all of us were literally on the floor of our apartment, yelling, no, Nate! What are you doing? And listeners, if you don't want to have the season 2 spoiled for you, please stop listening. Come back in a few minutes.

But when Nate reveals to the reporter--Trent from The Independent--that Ted actually had a panic attack, which is why he left the pitch, I felt my whole heart break.

And we all were searching for answers on Google. Like, why would Nate do this? And one of the writers in an interview said, you know, we've been hinting at this since season 1. If you actually go back, we drop hints along the way towards this trajectory.

So we went and we rewatched it, and they're absolutely correct. There were hints about it the entire way that we totally ignored. And it completely makes sense, and it's heartbreaking, but it's like a part of his character's journey. And I'm invested in seeing what happens from here with him.

LIZA KATZER: Right. And you can see-- and I think I love that about Jason and what he's trying to show, which is like, people are so complicated. And it's not just like, oh, he's a bad character or whatever. It's like, no. The experiences that people have create the person they become. And how you treat people, how you speak to people, it has such an impact.

Also, I love that you went back and watched it. That's amazing. I have to shout out, like, the entire cast and crew, everybody involved, because even if-- I'm sure you noticed this watching it again-- but Nate's hair gets more and more gray as he becomes more and more evil. And that was hair department. Nicky Austin, who does our hair and makeup, who's amazing, that was all her. She was like, this is the arc that I'm going to create through what I do.

And there are so many subtle things that are going on in every department that you can like watch for. And it's just-- it's really cool. But yeah, everything is very intentional, and everything has an arc. Yeah, it's really cool to work on a show that people watch. And not only do they watch it, they watch it multiple times.

And that is really a new experience for me, because I started working for Bill after he created Scrubs. And so in that time, we had a lot of shows that would last a season or two or we'd shoot a lot of pilots. Like, we were always making things, but nothing really hit. And so the experience of being a part of a show that actually has an impact and that people really pay attention to and that impacts them on an emotional level is really powerful.

And it's kind of like, OK. That's the new true north. That's now what I want to reach for and what our company wants to reach for is just not only creating good content, but creating content that can reach a broad audience and that has something to say, some sort of social impact or sparks a conversation or shows women or people of color in a new light.

Gives them a chance to-- and really rounding out some of those characters. It's challenging because it's a half-hour comedy, and there's such a big cast. But really, every character is so important. It's like you want to go deep into every single one and really understand their backstory and have as much specificity as possible. And I think our writers are doing a really good job of that, and will continue to do in season 3.

CAT RECKELHOFF: The writers are doing an amazing job. I never thought that I would like Jamie when he was introduced season 1, episode 1. I'm now rooting for this man. How is this happening? I'm suddenly on his side.

LIZA KATZER: It's so beautiful, because it's like-- oh, he's the guy who's doing the work and evolving. It's so-- I love how the characters are so layered, you know? It's like, you think it's a stereotype. Like, oh, you think this is Keeley, like, the blonde bimbo. But no. She has so much depth and so much emotion, and is now becoming this like high-powered career woman.

Or like Jamie Tartt who just seems like, OK, you know, the douchey pro football player with a six-pack. Now it's like, oh, he had a bad dad and he struggled, and that's why he is this way. But now he's trying and he's growing.

And it's like, the other thing that's very cool about it is it delivers all these messages in a very palatable package. So the show reaches a broad audience. It doesn't matter if it's like your conservative parents from the Midwest or your super liberal friends in Brooklyn. Like, the messages still land and it keeps it very focused on the character.

And it just makes it kind of easy to consume. And I think that's something that in the age of streaming, we get away from a little bit, because it's not just about a broad show for a broad audience. Like, you know, we grew up with all the broadcast networks, and so many people tuned into those shows. Now that everything is more niche and we have all these streamers, it's great, because you can be much more specific.

But then oftentimes, there's these beautiful pieces of art that no one's finding or seeing. So it's really special, and I'm really proud of that specific thing about Ted Lasso, and hope to continue doing that. It's like, let's get the messaging across and deliver it to as many people as possible.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Absolutely. I'm really enjoying that there are so many platforms so we're able to watch content made by so many different writers who can bring their authentic experiences to screen in a way that we would have previously missed.

Another thing I want to go back to in terms of delivering really powerful messaging in a really palatable way, there's a scene from season 1 that I found was super resonant, and it was when Ted has his panic attack at the karaoke bar and has to go outside, and he's overwhelmed.

I almost cried watching that scene, because I've never seen an anxiety attack portrayed so well on television. I even turned to my partner at the time and said, that's what that feels like. That is exactly how it sounds. That's what it feels like. And when Rebecca comes out and holds his hand and grounds him, that was the appropriate response to that. That was all so accurate. Like, someone in that writers room, someone in that crew, they knew.

LIZA KATZER: That is creators, Jason, writers being very honest with their experience, and writers on that staff that have anxiety, that have depression, that suffer panic attacks. And so the authenticity is real. And I think that's, again, what makes it so good is that this isn't just the glossy, rosy TV version of something. It's very real, and it's coming from a real place.

You know, unfortunately, I don't get to sit inside the writers room, but it's a good group of people that really trust each other and is very open about their life experiences. And that's the TV that I watch. I want to watch something that's real, that speaks to me.

When I see myself reflected-- and it's like, now in my 30s at this moment in TV and film, I've watched it evolve and see it reflected more and more honestly and more and more truthfully, and feel so much more real. And when it's real, you can just-- you get so much out of it. You connect to it. And so it's really nice to hear that you were like, oh, that's it. Yep.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I was sold on Ted Lasso. I was so critical of watching it the first time it was introduced to me. I was like--

LIZA KATZER: Absolutely fair.

CAT RECKELHOFF: --a show about soccer? No, I can't do that. And then very invested in Ted's journey into mental health and into meeting with a therapist, which he was so resistant about. And I hope that other people, particularly men watching the show, are thinking to themselves, maybe that's something I might want to explore. Or women when they watch the show, maybe I want to explore therapy.

Just having someone to even talk to, it's allowing-- I've said to you before in other conversations, it's really opening up-- it's opening up a conversation around mental health and wellness and what it means to ask for help and what it means to seek help. And I know there's a lot of stigma around it, but it's like, just talking about it, you're able to connect with someone who can either help you or someone who can relate and has never had a language to describe their experiences before.

LIZA KATZER: And that's what's so important about shows like this, is when you see it and you see these stars that you love and these characters that you love-- and it's like going back to what I said about my struggles earlier on. Like, when I saw that I wasn't alone and other people share this, it's just such a relief. And it's just almost this permission to share yourself and ask for help. And group healing and group therapy, and just talking and being open and honest and vulnerable.

And I think it happens in the writers room, and that's why you see it on screen, that honesty and vulnerability. And it's so cool to see it happen in a traditionally male, masculine, macho setting, a sports setting, and to see these men who can have the nuance of being amazing at their sport and super masculine, and then also have a softness and a vulnerability.

And like, you're never going to be all the things-- or one thing all the time. Everyone is so layered. And so exposing that is really cool. And it sneaks up on you, because you're not expecting it. As you said, you're like, wait. This is a show about soccer. Like, what?

And then that I guess goes to the palatable comment, is it's like, it's not hitting you over the head with, be this way. Be vulnerable. Therapists are good. It's just kind of like you're seeing it through the eyes of this traditional Midwestern man who is like, this is bullshit. I don't want this. And then slowly comes to realize, oh, I don't want this, but I need this, and I'm going to seek this.

And so yeah, I really admire that about the show, and it's another thing that makes me really proud. And it's very exciting to be in a moment where people are feeling more empowered and honest about their experience.

And funnily enough, the other show that we're about to start shooting in April, Shrinking, is literally about a therapist played by Jason Segel. And so that writers room is even more dialed up in terms of like-- we were laughing, because part of my job as a producer is staffing the writers rooms and interviewing and meeting with a bunch of writers, and kind of deciding who to funnel up to the showrunner.

And so a lot of these writers were being pitched by their reps as, like, oh, this is a big therapy guy, or she has a ton of experience with therapy. And I'm like, these are Hollywood comedy writers. Everyone has--

CAT RECKELHOFF: [LAUGHS]

LIZA KATZER: [INAUDIBLE] therapy. But you know, so it's a writers room with a lot of people being very honest. But the challenge is, how do you make a show about therapy not a show about therapy? So I'm really excited.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. How do you do that?

LIZA KATZER: You know, we'll see. I think so far, everything I'm reading is really, really good. It's just about keeping it honest and showing how flawed everyone is.

And you know, just really-- yeah, keeping it on the characters and making it very true to life, and just making sure that you're using the therapy and psychology as a way to launch stories and not have it ever be preachy or, you know, falling into a trap of-- we never want to be blatantly like, now we're delivering a message, or this is the theme of the episode. But I mean, if you've seen Scrubs, you know that Bill Lawrence is very good at infusing comedy and heart.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. So we have Shrinking that is in production right now, right?

LIZA KATZER: That's right. Yeah, that starts in April, so we're pre-production on Shrinking. And then Bad Monkey is in production in Miami now.

CAT RECKELHOFF: So we have two-- we have two shows to look forward to, is what you're telling me.

LIZA KATZER: That's right. Two new shows and season 3 of Ted Lasso. And hopefully many more.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Hopefully, many more. I do not want to look forward to the day when y'all announce it's the final season, because I'm not going to emotionally recover from that. [LAUGHS]

LIZA KATZER: We don't talk about it. We won't think about it. We don't know.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I will not ask you what to look forward to on Ted Lasso. Won't put you in that position.

LIZA KATZER: Thank you so much, because god, the anxiety of sharing too much is real. I really struggle with the overshare. [LAUGHS] So from what I can tell you is it's going to be good.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Do you have any other final thoughts for our listeners for the Northwestern community?

LIZA KATZER: I'm sure most of your listeners are Northwestern people. What a great community, and truly, I said this in beginning. I am so proud to be from this school. There's so many resources, especially when you're in entertainment. Like, when I came out to LA, I went to these mixers and knew all these NU functions. I still go to showcases for actors who are out here. It's just such a great community, and there's so much opportunity.

And I love when people reach out [LAUGHS]. I try to be good about responding to emails and helping whenever I can, but I definitely leaned on a lot of Northwestern connections. I went through the School of Communications to get alumni info. Like, was very bold about reaching out and telling people, I need help. I need a job. So I encourage anyone, if anything I said resonated or if there's any way it can be helpful, like, would love to do so. Yeah.

And I think I would say very similar to how we started this conversation is that everybody is so different, and everyone is on such a different track, and to be patient. Because I think sometimes as overachievers, type A people as many of us are from Northwestern, it's hard not to get wrapped up in the comparisons and the rat race, and you know, trying to have it all as soon as possible.

And good things take time. And there's no way to rush the growth that you need in order to find yourself in a place where you can decide what's best for you or you can capitalize on your talents or make smart choices for yourself. So just really slow down and enjoy the process and trust that things will come together as they're supposed to.

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CAT RECKELHOFF: Thank you, listeners, for tuning in to today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. For more information about our podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections.

In our next episode, we will be joined by Dr. Brian Aguado, an Assistant Professor of Bioengineering at UC San Diego where his laboratory research is focused on studying sex differences in cardiovascular disease using biomaterial technologies. Most recently, he co-founded LatinXinBME, a new social media initiative dedicated to building a diverse and inclusive community of Latinx biomedical engineers and scientists to support each other personally and professionally through their careers.

This is also the first episode where our guest will join me in person for the interview. So please check back in two weeks for this special episode. And until next time, stay safe and take care of yourself, your friends, and your community.

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