How to Develop a Thriving Mentoring Relationship with Courtney Harris ’13 and Djenaldbeth Louis ’20 MS

HELEN KIM: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, where we talk to alumni about how key experiences have propelled them in their life's work. I'm Helen Kim from the Northwestern Alumni Association. And this month, we'll be featuring mentors and mentees of the Northwestern Network Mentorship Program, in light of National Mentoring Month.

Today, we have Courtney Harris and Djenaldbeth Louis as our guests. These two first met almost two years ago through the Northwestern Network Mentorship Program, a year round online platform designed to cultivate meaningful mentorship opportunities for the global Northwestern community. And since then, they've been able to provide each other support when it came to learning about the ins and outs of their industries, managing workplace relationships, and much more.

For those of you who are looking to find a mentor/mentee right now, this is a perfect program to participate in. To learn more about this program you can go to mentor.northwestern.edu. Or you can go to our show notes for this episode on our website at northwestern.edu/intersections. Now, let's listen to Courtney and Djenaldbeth's story.

COURTNEY HARRIS: I'm Courtney Harris. I am a 2013 alumni of the Northwestern School of Communications. Upon graduation, I dove headfirst into the ad industry. And so, within, I think, I guess it's almost eight years now, but in the past few months, I've been at McDonald's on their national media team, working on their national marketing plans. And just really excited to be here, super passionate about DEI, mentorship, and giving back to the community.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: My name is Djenaldbeth Louis, I just graduated from Medill in 2020. So I just received my master's from the IMC program. Upon graduation, I just got started in the advertising industry. Initially, I was in hospitality. So I made that transition after graduation.

I work for a multicultural agency. I am a strategic planner there. So my key role is to create strategic approaches. So that brands can effectively connect, and authentically connect with the multicultural audiences.

HELEN KIM: If you remember, when did you both join the Northwestern Network Mentorship Program?

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: So I joined the fall my first year. So that would be 2018. So I actually was paired with Courtney that following year, so beginning of 2019.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, so I feel like we've, almost, been connected for two years now, which is crazy in itself. I joined the Network Mentorship Program about five years ago, which is half a decade, even crazier to say aloud at this point. But that was back in 2016. And have done both sides of things, so I've been a mentor, but also been a mentee.

HELEN KIM: Yeah, for sure, and Courtney, you have that unique perspective as someone who's been a mentor/mentee. And you've also a lot of Mentor Circles, so you've basically done everything that someone could have done on this Northwestern Network Mentorship Program.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, I think that I'm really excited, because I know that there has been some work done regarding the mentorship program and drilling down into the affinity groups. So I know that that is launching really soon, in the next few months. So yes, I have done almost everything that you can imagine within the program. But getting ready and have already signed up to do the next portion, as well.

HELEN KIM: You know what's exciting? We just launched it. Registration is actually available until January 29. So if anybody wants to check it out, please do. Go to our website. But let me ask you this, what were some of your first memories and impressions of each other?

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Well, when I met Courtney, initially, we met in person. We met a Starbucks, downtown Chicago. She was really bubbly, that's one of the personality traits that's really consistent when talking to her and meeting up with her. She's really bubbly. She's really loving, like a caregiver energy. She was extremely helpful. She was just-- I don't know, she just gives a bubbly, cheery, fun vibe.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Thank you for the very kind words. You're right. We did meet in a Starbucks. And it was actually the Starbucks in the building that I was working in at the time. So I think that I had actually dipped out in between meetings and was running to one right after we met.

But the first thing that I remember about you was just this eagerness and willing to be open and learning. I think that that has continued to be true throughout our relationship. But you're just so open to being malleable, and changed, and knowing that we sometimes just talk things out, because I don't know all of the answers. But just being able to bounce things off of one another has been really helpful.

HELEN KIM: Why is mentoring someone or being mentored important to you?

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: So for me it's important to be both at some point in your life. In the beginning, when I was an undergrad, I was a mentor. And that was important for me, because I understood some of the challenges that you'll have just navigating college. And also from a personal standpoint, and from a collegiate standpoint, just trying to figure out how to do your classes.

And I also understood when I had a mentor in undergrad, as well, that some of the issues that I was going through at the time, my mentor was there to support me. And she was also there to let me know where I could go. Because sometimes you can't see how far into the future what's even possible. So having a mentor is extremely important, just making sure that the pathway you want to go on, you're able to achieve it, and what steps to take to achieve those things.

COURTNEY HARRIS: And I'll answer this in two parts. First and foremost, I joined, just as a kid, my dad always instilled in me that you never just keep walking on your path without looking back and reaching for others and helping others come along the way. And I know how important it is to have help when you're trying to find your way through this thing called life. Furthermore, adulting, I feel like that has been the catch-all phrase for us within the past few years, but it's difficult. And having support from people who have been there before is really important.

The second thing that I'll say about that is I think it's extremely important to have people who have walked similar paths. So that can mean different things for different people. But for me, I find it really helpful not only getting help from mentors, but also when sharing my experiences with mentees, that within the industry, so advertising, we're both in that industry, it's really helpful to be able to bounce ideas, to be able to talk about things that are relevant to both of us.

In fact, we just had a conversation last night about performance reviews and wanting to set goals. And how do you do that within your organization. And so just knowing that I had that relevant background within the advertising industry, it makes it possible to contextualize things a little easier.

And then also I think it's really important as a minority, so with it being twofold, as a woman, as being a Black woman, I think it's really important to have people in your corner that have also seen things that you might not have yet reached across your path. And so being able to share those insights, share those stories, whether that be across your corporate experiences, or even just in life, I think it's really important to have someone that gets it.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Yeah, definitely second that.

HELEN KIM: Yeah, for sure, and just having someone who really understands what being in your shoes is like, in terms of identity, culture, et cetera, I think, is so critical and important for everyone, in whatever life stage you're in.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Definitely.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, absolutely. After I just said that, I thought about it. It's important. But then it's also important to diversify as well. So one of the mentors that I had was in a nonprofit space. At the time, I thought that, maybe, that's where I wanted to go. It ended up not being the case. But I think it's also important just to have those points of differentiation to expose yourself to new things that you might not always be aware of within your particular field.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: And it's interesting to add on to this topic. So within the program that I joined to be paired with Courtney, the onus was really on the mentee. So we had to, one, reach out to whoever you wanted to be your mentor. And one thing that I was looking for when I was looking for a mentor was someone that was actually in the industry. Because I am a transplant in Chicago.

So I didn't know anybody. And I'm entering a new industry. So one of the ways that I thought to navigate this space is actually having someone that's already in that space that can, one, connect me with other people, and two, can let me know what I needed to do, because I wasn't really well versed in the industry or what people were looking for.

So one thing that Courtney did was look at my resume just to see where I should go. And she also helped me to understand what classes to take, now that I'm in this program. And she didn't sit with me and look at my schedule or anything, but what she did do is she was explaining to me her experience, and through her experience, and what I knew that she had, and what I wanted to gain from her, I learned what classes I needed to take in order for that to happen.

HELEN KIM: It really sounds like you two have a two-way relationship, not a one-way relationship, where you both benefit from each other's company advice. It's kind of rare to meet someone right away, especially like a mentor, a mentee and feel like you two could click immediately. And building relationship and rapport kind of takes time. So when you two first met, what did your meet-ups look like. And what did you start talking about in the beginning?

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Initially she asked me what I wanted. Which I think really is a key question to ask of a mentee. And I don't want to speak for you, Courtney, but I'm assuming she asked that question so that she can understand how to best help me, and if she was able to provide the things that I was looking for.

I knew that there were things that I was looking for. So that's what it looked like initially. And now that we're in this virtual space, we kind of just transitioned to text message. She hit me up. I hit her up and say, hey, are you free? Can we chat? That's how it's been now. So hopefully once COVID is taken care of and over, we can go back to meeting up.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, I think that that's a pretty good overview of what those did look like. The one thing that I will add is that it definitely is a reciprocal relationship, and it should be. And I think that anyone who is looking to sign up either way, on the mentor side, or the mentee side, has to be aware of that. And has to be able and willing to give the time and resources that the relationship does deserve.

However, as she mentioned, the onus is on the mentee. I asked that question because I know that there are things that I always look for to get out of the relationship. But as the program is set up where the mentee is reaching out to the mentor, it's always just really important to acknowledge what the benefits are, what they are trying to learn, how they prefer to be communicated with, how frequently do you want to meet.

Its work. And you have to be willing to do that. And it's not always going to feel like laborious work. It's going to be fun. And you're going to get something out of it. But it does take effort, as any relationship does. And I think it's important for everybody to be aware of that.

Because I have seen relationships that tend to fizzle, whether that's on either side, one person, perhaps, the mentor, isn't able to give as much time and resources to the relationship. And/or I've seen situations where the mentee just isn't really sure what the structure of the relationship should be. And you find that the mentor is reaching out more, and trying to do more, and trying to pull them in. Where it shouldn't be like that.

While I would say that our relationship has gotten to a 50-50 space, I do think, in the beginning, the onus was on the mentee in trying to set those boundaries and understand what you were trying to gain from the relationship.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: I also want to add it was important for me to feel whoever became my mentor was also transparent, which Courtney is extremely transparent, which I really love. Because I like to share as it is. But it just also made me more comfortable to what degree I was going to share the information with Courtney, because she was really transparent of what was going on with her different roles.

And what I took away from that is that I can really share with her some of my experiences, what I really wanted. And I was able to really learn from the pathway that she took to help me out in moving forward.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, I had to keep it real. I can't lie. I have no poker face. No one will be able to tell that, because we're on audio right now. But I have zero poker face. And I know there were times where you were like, hey, do you think you might have worked at this company, or you might have been on this team, et cetera. Do you think that this is a good opportunity?

And I was real with you about, maybe, maybe not. Maybe the answer is no. And just sharing my trials and tribulations across trying to get promoted, or trying to move to LA, and trying to just navigate my own life. Because in reality, we're all still learning. And it's really important to be cognizant of that. I just don't have all of the answers. And I'm still trying to figure it out. But anything that I can share with you that makes it a little easier for your path, and your journey, is extremely important to me.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Yeah, and I love the fact that you're so open to saying I don't know. Instead of you just making it up, because that would lead me to ask, well, what questions should I be thinking about? And lots of times, you would already tell me, here's what I would be thinking about. This is what matters to me.

But you also have to find that fine what matters to you in order to make that decision. I'm really lucky to find a mentor so quickly that really, really worked. And I really enjoy and love the relationship we were building, that we built, and that we're going to continue to build.

Courtney, really, is the first person that I know in the industry. And us having a relationship the way we have it is really beneficial. Because obviously I know, one, she's going to keep it real. And that if everything's happening, if I'm having any questions, or if anything's a little shady, I can just say, OK, Courtney is this normal? Because this is my first agency.

And Courtney's been in advertising. As she's jumped to the client side. So she was able to navigate that space, I've never heard of that before. That's not necessarily common. Because as a new person in the industry, you might think that this is normal, because it's your first experience. So to have someone to bounce that off of is really great. And to know that she's going to be honest, like this may not be the best, or think about it this way, also just helps me to know I'm going forward. And it helps me to achieve the goals that I have set out for myself.

HELEN KIM: I love what both of you just shared, because it shows me, as someone who has never met you both, your relationship really bloomed into something that you didn't even expect from the beginning of your meeting. And it just, it keeps flourishing, and it is a reciprocal relationship.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Technically, the relationship in the system is actually over. It ends after a year. But it's been great that we stay connected throughout all of the craziness that has been 2020, and have been able to just have real, candid conversations that I've learned so much from her. And I believe it's reciprocated.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Yeah, definitely.

HELEN KIM: Well, as a mentor/mentee pair that has a very successful relationship right now, and an ongoing one, what advice do you have for folks who are possibly looking for a mentor or looking for a mentee right now?

COURTNEY HARRIS: Be intentional. I think I mentioned this earlier, but it's going to require work on both ends. And you have to be able to set those expectations and understand what you're both trying to get out of the relationship. And just being honest and transparent, I think, that's really something that has helped us come a long way.

She reached out yesterday. She's like, hey, do you have time to talk today? I'm like, actually, I only have 30 minutes. And I want to talk to you. But that's all that I have to give today. So let's talk. And we did. And it was great.

But I think it's just being transparent, where sometimes people might be like, well, actually, no. I don't have any time. And we can reschedule. We can talk in a few weeks, where it wasn't this stuffy formal relationship, which people, I think, sometimes, think of when you do think of mentors, and you do think of those types of relationships that you've seen on TV.

I think it's also helped that we're fairly close in age. I know that sometimes mentor relationships, you've got people who have been in the industry for 20, 30 plus years, speaking with someone who is a recent grad. And I think that those relationships also work. But I also think that it's really helpful to have someone who isn't too far removed from the experiences that you are experiencing in the current day.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Yeah, and for me, I would say, one, it starts with knowing yourself. Because I think before you reach out, the main question that your mentor will ask is how can I help you. And if you don't know the things in particular, for me, I know it's important that I have someone that when I'm checking in, that's going to remember that this is some of the goals that I had set for myself, and just making sure I'm on track. So holding me accountable, because we had that conversation is important.

And also just knowing where you want to go. And do you foresee that this person has the ability to help you? And they don't necessarily have to be in the same industry. But I knew at the time that that's what I wanted. Because I've had mentors in the past that weren't in the same industry. And didn't have the network to get me where I wanted to go. So I knew I had to add an additional mentor to fill in that gap that I needed.

And I would also say to be extremely transparent with what you want. Don't come in thinking that your mentor is going to get you a job, because that's not necessarily their role. And sometimes that can be off putting as if you're using them. You want to build this relationship. And you want to use them as a person of wisdom, because they have a wealth of information, whether you are the same age, whether this person is younger than, or older than you, they have different experience.

So you want to honor that. And you want to learn as much as you can. Because what you'll find is that having that relationship with that person is a lot more valuable than that person getting you a job. Because you don't know who is a part of their network. You don't know what information they will be teaching you and what you'll be gaining from it. So just go in there with an open mind. Go in there, like Courtney said, super intentional about what you need and being super transparent.

COURTNEY HARRIS: Yeah, it's a long game. And it's not a game. But when you think of it as short term versus long term, it should be long-term growth over a period of time. I'm not saying that all of these relationships are going to be two plus decades. But if it's real, it might be. And that's great.

But it's also not going to be of the utmost value if you're just looking for someone to help you get into a position. So don't identify somebody as your mentor just because you want to work at that company. The relationships are really meant to have value over a period of time versus just a one and done.

DJENALDBETH LOUIS: Yeah, and also, when you're doing your research, when I seen Courtney's career history, I loved that she had marketing experience. So that was one of the key things. Did I want to work at her agency at the time? I was interested. But I didn't know that, because I didn't know enough about the world.

And that was a value I know that she could have provided, for her to explain to me what her agency at the time did, outside of what I found on their website. What other agencies have done. And what's the difference between agency?

Because if I just looked at Courtney like, OK, I'm just going to work at this agency. I might not even like it. The agency that she was a part of was the media agency. And that wasn't the path I wanted to take. But Courtney has provided so much information and so much wisdom that helped me get to the part where I'm at an agency that I actually really love.

Another question that asks your mentor, what are they good? I didn't ask that to Courtney, because I kind of knew, from talking to her, that she was going to be super transparent. So I would have found out through the relationship. But ask them, are you good at this? Because moving forward, as I'm looking to build my network, I ask people, are you really good at public speaking, because I know that's something that I want to be better at, so that they can share with me their advice.

So if you already have an understanding of what your needs are, and also ask how you can help them. Like Courtney mentioned, it's a two way street. So you want to be able to provide. Sometimes, the mentor doesn't need anything from you. But it's always good to ask. So just be open, be willing to be an active participant in the relationship.

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HELEN KIM: Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. For more information about our podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections. Until next time, stay safe, and take care of yourself and your families.

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