Universal Practices and (Some) Industry-Specific Insights in Mentoring with Michelle Lin ’05, ’09 MD and Rebecca Windsor ’98

CAT RECKELHOFF: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a podcast where we talk to alumni about key experiences have propelled them in their life's work. I'm your host, Cat Reckelhoff, from the Northwestern Alumni Association. On the occasion of mentorship month we've invited mentors Michelle Lin and Rebecca Windsor from the Northwestern Network Mentorship program to talk about universal best practices in mentorship and insight specific to their respective fields, medicine and entertainment.

Michelle Lin is an emergency physician and health services researcher whose goal is to improve acute care outcomes and equity. Dr. Lin is an associate professor of emergency medicine and population health science and policy, and core faculty within the Institute for Health Equity Research at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. She has received several national awards, including the inaugural Emergency Medicine Residents Association 45 under 45 in 2019 and the Society for Academic Emergency Medicine Young Investigator Award in 2021.

Rebecca Windsor is the head of the Warner Brothers Television Workshop, the premier writing and directing program for artists looking to start or further their careers in television. As an extension of her role developing new talent, Rebecca helped launch Warner Brothers digital brand Stage 13, overseeing the critically acclaimed Snatchers, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and SXSW (South by Southwest) , as well as Special, which premiered on Netflix and garnered four Emmy nominations. Welcome to Intersections, Michelle and Rebecca-- very happy to have you here today.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Thanks for having us.

MICHELLE LIN: Thanks so much-- happy to be here.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Before we get to the topic of mentorship, it's a tradition on this show to talk about your Northwestern journey. Michelle, I'd like to start with you. Can you tell me what brought you to Northwestern, and were there any key experiences you had as a student that really shaped you?

MICHELLE LIN: Sure. I grew up in sunny Southern California, and hadn't spent a lot of time there [in the midwest], but had a cousin who grew up in the Midwest and decided that the Northwestern summer program might be fun to do, I think when I was in middle school. So that was a big treat to spend a summer away in eighth grade.

And I loved the campus so much I decided that I wanted to go back for college. So it was my dream school, and I was lucky to get in for undergrad and for medical school. So I spent many years between Evanston and Chicago, and have a lot of fond memories of both school and enjoying my time outside of class as well.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's great. Thank you. When were a student...so when you came to Northwestern you already knew you wanted to study medicine? You were absolutely like, I'm here to go to med school. You already knew exactly what you wanted to do.

MICHELLE LIN: Yeah. I didn't have a lot of exposure to medicine growing up, because I don't come from my family with a lot of health care background, but knew I always wanted to help people in some capacity-- and was fortunate to take a class in high school geared towards vocational skills to become an EMT. And I found that really compelling to be able to help people in their moment of greatest need. And someone suggested that, if I liked that, then maybe I should think about being an ER doctor. And yeah, now here I am.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's incredible. Thank you for sharing. It's really interesting to hear about the experiences you have, even before you go to college, that really helped propel you forward. Rebecca, I would like to now ask you the same question. What brought you to Northwestern? A fellow Californian, I believe we have-- something you two have in common.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Fellow Southern Californian-- and I grew up in San Diego, and I didn't even apply to a college in California. I wanted to experience seasons and snow, and I was just sort of bored by having perfect weather year round, so Northwestern was actually the closest school that I applied to. I also wanted to be an actor, so every college that I applied to had a strong theater program.

So that was really how I found Northwestern as I was researching schools. I actually didn't know anyone that had gone there either. I think this was before Northwestern really, I think, came into the forefront of people's conversations of the best schools in the country everyone that I went to school with either went to Ivy Leagues or Stanford, I guess.

Once I learned more about Northwestern, it sort of felt like it checked all the boxes. So got in, went there was a theater major-- I also minored in history. And that was one of the other things that I really liked about Northwestern, as opposed to-- there are some theater schools that are more conservatory based, like NYU or Carnegie Mellon, where pretty much all you do is theater.

And I wanted to have a more well-rounded liberal arts education, so the fact that I was able to minor in history and I was able to take sociology classes, and Buddhism classes, and just anything that sounded interesting to me was really the draw. Yeah, and so I had four great years there. I don't know if there's one key moment that impacted me.

I mean, I think going through the theater program, which is really rigorous, but also really amazing, and obviously well-known, was definitely part of it. But a lot of my experiences also had nothing to do with theater, and most of my closest friends that I made in the dorms were not theater majors.

I had my theater friends, and then I also had my pre-med friends, pre-law, comm studies, et cetera. And having, I think, that diverse group of people, and also from different backgrounds and different parts of the country, I think just really opened my eyes and helped me become much more independent.

MICHELLE LIN: I'm going to actually add on to Rebecca's response. I similarly was bored of perfect 70-degree weather every day-- which seems shortsighted in retrospect, given that it's 20 degrees where I am right now. And also, I was fortunate to be accepted to the honors program in medical education, which is something that's pretty unique, that used to be offered at Northwestern, but no longer is.

But it allowed me to be accepted to medical school as a high school student. And that was an amazing opportunity, because it really allowed me to explore all of the diverse offerings that Northwestern had to offer. So I got to major in comparative literature studies. I got to study abroad. I emphasized my senior thesis on Latin American literature. And it was just a really incredible experience that I don't think I could have had as a pre-med anywhere else-- so just really stellar.

CAT RECKELHOFF: I think something I hear talking to many Northwestern alumni is that they get to have a more well-rounded experience. They get to focus on something they're really passionate about, but then they get to supplement it with other studies or just being able to talk to other students. And it makes you not just like a more well-rounded scholar or expert in your field, but it makes you a more well-rounded person.

That's a very common through-line I've heard from a lot of Northwestern alumni, which I think is something very special and very noteworthy about the school. OK, so I want to hear a bit more about what you both did after you graduated from Northwestern. And Rebecca, I'll have you start us off. What happened after graduation? What did you do next?

REBECCA WINDSOR: Probably a lot longer story than Michelle, who it's easy when you go to medical school and you want to be a doctor. There's really only one path. So for me, wanting to be an actor, I moved straight to New York. Again, I think, coming from California, New York being-- living the dream in New York as a struggling actor, that just felt-- it's very cliché. But I waited tables and all of that.

But I had six years in New York, which I loved. I did not get as far as I wanted to in the acting pursuits. I never made money from it. I always, like I said, was waiting tables, or bartending, or whatnot. But I loved it, and I was having a great time. And I was doing off, off, off, off Broadway shows in these tiny black box theaters, and really terrible student films, and taking classes, and going on auditions, and things like that.

But it wasn't happening-- I don't want to say fast enough, but I think what happened was I met my now husband after being in New York for several years, and that made me think about the long-term part of my life. It's one thing to just be 22, 23, 24 and just think, OK, owning a home and having kids-- that's something that will happen at some point in my life.

But meeting the person I was-- I could actually do that with made it more tangible. And because I'm also kind of too type A and want to have control over my destiny, I just started to question whether I wanted to still be bartending when I was 40 in pursuit of this very difficult dream.

So around the time that we got married was also the time that I left New York and we moved to LA. That also, I think, just came from the fact that I missed my family. I missed good weather after being away for 11 winters. And at the same time, then it meant I also had to start out in a brand new city and try pursuing acting kind of from square one.

And I think my heart just wasn't in it anymore, even though I loved acting-- just the day-to-day life of what it takes to be a struggling actor. So I got an internship at a feature production company that developed films, and that's when it sort of clicked, because that job is working with writers and helping to make their scripts better, so it felt like it was still exercising that creative muscle that I used to use as an actor, but hopefully with more of a career path.

So at that point, I was able to put acting aside, which took a long time. I was not feeling acting for a while, but to actually say out loud, I'm not pursuing this thing that I wanted to do since I was three years old, felt really challenging. And also the pressure that I went to school for this, and all the money that was spent on my degree-- all of that was wrapped up in it.

But once I actually cut the ties and said, no, I'm going to do this thing, it just felt like it made sense. I interned at that production company, then worked at a talent agency as an assistant, and then from there, I worked at a series of feature production company, TV production company-- slowly, slowly, slowly moving my way up, maybe not as fast as I would have liked, just by virtue of some jobs just didn't pan out in the way that they did for other people.

And then I landed a job at the Sundance Institute, which was wonderful, working on their labs, which are artist support programs that try and help aspiring indie film makers to make their movies, and also TV-- we launched an episodic program while I was there. So I was there for a couple of years, and then from there I landed at Warner Brothers about 6 and 1/2, 7 years ago, running the writers and the directors workshops, which are similar fellowships, pipeline programs for aspiring TV writers and TV directors who just haven't been able to launch their careers or get that first break in the industry. And I can talk more about that now or later, but that's kind of what I've been doing for the last several years.

CAT RECKELHOFF: That's great. I do want to circle back to some of the details in that program, but I think, based on the conversation that you and I had together, I feel like that would be really nice to talk about when we switch gears into mentorship, because there's a lot of overlap between mentorship and your job, which I think is really compelling.

Michelle, I would now like to extend this question to you-- so would love to hear a little bit more about your time in medical school, and your experiences after medical school and what brought you to where you are now.

MICHELLE LIN: Yeah. So I thought that I was on this very straightforward career path, where I'd go to medical school, and then go to residency training, and then spend the rest of my life as a doctor-- which I still am. But I actually realized pretty early on in residency training-- which is the step immediately after medical school-- that, as much as I loved seeing patients, it-- I was hugely burnt out.

I think it took me a couple of months to feel burned out. And it seems very normal to say right now, given the current state of affairs, but at the time, I don't think I had words for what it was. And I very quickly had the realization that I would not be able to do that for the next 40 years of my career, so I started looking for other ways that I could use my skills and background to make a difference.

And a lot of why I was burning out was because I was doing my training at a large public hospital where a lot of the problems that we were seeing-- it was an incredible place to train, because I was fortunate to be able to care for some of the most vulnerable patients that you would encounter in our society. But it was also incredibly draining, because I felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again, and that people found their way to the ER because of bigger systemic issues that had failed them along the way, and that I was sort of putting a Band-Aid on a bullet hole, for lack of a better analogy.

And so I knew I had to do something a little bit further upstream, but I really couldn't figure out what that was. And I think there are ways to volunteer and other things like that, but I wanted it to be part of what I did on a day-to-day basis, and-- took me a little while to figure it out, and I did have mentors who played a role, but I sort of dabbled in advocacy for a while. I got very involved with a union that was very active at the time.

I also spent some time in DC trying to figure out if more national health policy was the scale at which I wanted to work, and ultimately, sort of backdoor, found myself in a research training program-- never thinking that that's what I wanted to do, because I hadn't had a lot of exposure to research, and what I had experienced was rather dry. But it actually turns out that a lot of the skills I had acquired as an undergrad that weren't related to basic science, like writing, and reading, and synthesizing information, is really useful, with respect to a research career.

And since then, it's really taken off. So I really feel lucky that about 70% of my time right now is research, and the rest is seeing patients. So it's a really wonderful balance of being able to still help people one on one, but also try to tackle some of the bigger problems underlying why they're in the ER to begin with.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Pretty incredible that you were like, how can I, as you said, move upstream to try to impact changes at this point so they ripple out to the rest of the system, and hopefully make some really viable and tangible changes to the way that we care for people in society. So Michelle, I know you mentioned that you had some really influential mentors, and I think this is where I would like to shift our conversation into mentorship.

Can you tell me about a mentor-- or maybe one or two mentors, because you mentioned you've had a couple-- who had an impact on you, and maybe the qualities that made them such an influential mentor to you?

MICHELLE LIN: Sure. So I don't think I knew what it meant to have a mentor to begin with. I don't think I had very strong mentor figures until much more recently, and certainly, no one who would call themselves a mentor-- like, I am being mentored by this person. But if I look back along the way, there were always people who did give me little tidbits of advice along the way.

And a lot of them, in retrospect, happened to be women, and I don't know that that's an accident. I certainly didn't seek it out, but there seems to be a pattern. But there were people who just made a difference and said things to me that really stuck with me that I kept in mind as I was making decisions about how to figure out this sort of hybrid medical career that I'm building for myself.

And I think certainly one who sticks out is Marianne Green who I want to say it was the associate dean for student affairs at the time when I was in medical school. And she said something to me early on about how she didn't love medicine until much later in her career. And at the time, I was like, wow, I can't believe someone who's pretty senior is disclosing that to me, because I think the right thing was to outwardly seem like you were passionate about medicine and helping people all the time.

And so to hear that from someone who I looked up to was really powerful, and made me feel like it was OK to also explore other interests. And then my fellowship mentor, who happened to be a man who's very supportive of women, I was drawn to not because I wanted to do research with him-- even though he was a researcher-- but because he told me-- I asked him why he did research, and he said that ERs care for the most vulnerable people in our society.

And unfortunately, a lot of them are closing, because they're not financially sustainable. And there's no one out there who's doing the that policymakers need to help keep ERs open, and that's why I feel compelled to play this role. And I think the idea of research potentially playing a role in policy and advocacy resonated really deeply with me.

And I, again, didn't know very much about research at the time, but knew that this person's values align with mine, and that if I were to train with him, that that would lead somewhere. So I took a leap, and feel very lucky that I did.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Excellent-- Rebecca, I would love to extend this question over to you. I know we have talked about how you also didn't have mentorship figures necessarily as you were going on. You kind sought them out later. But I do remember you mentioned a professor at one point who you said was very much-- how did you describe them? Like a drill sergeant almost?

REBECCA WINDSOR: Yes. That was our acting teacher Ann Woodworth, who I believe just retired this past year. It's funny. I actually didn't ever think about her as a mentor, but I think how-- for people who are not in the theater program at Northwestern, you are paired with an acting teacher at the end of your freshman year, and then you spend the next three years with the same core group of people and that teacher going through the entire curriculum, from doing Greek drama all the way to contemporary, through Shakespeare and Chekhov and all of that.

So it's a really kind of intense bond. And I think, as I was choosing teachers-- because you audit the classes, and then you rank who you want, and then you get paired. Initially, I was sort of frightened of her, because she seemed really intense, but I ended-- I sat in on the class and was just inspired by how amazing the class was and how she was. And it felt like having a loving drill sergeant, I would say. Everyone in the class was obsessed with her.

But she also made all of us cry at least once, but it was-- but I think, more than anything, she instilled a discipline in all of us and a rigor to the work that, even though I still don't act, I think has continued with my work ethic. And maybe I had that already. I don't know. Like I said, a little bit type A. But it was what I needed. I like someone who's going to keep me honest, and not let me procrastinate, or slack, or whatnot.

And in terms of my career, I thought about this, because I haven't had official mentor, if you will, but I've had two of my many, many bosses who have sort of taken on mentor-like roles, which I'm very grateful for. And one of them was when I was working at a TV production company, and it was just-- some production companies are very large, and some of them are very small, and this was a small one.

So it was her and me doing everything. And what's funny also is that she was younger than me. She was a year younger than me, but again, because I spent six years acting before getting into this side of the business, I-- as an assistant, as an entry level person, I was older than everybody. So I'm often older than other people at my level.

So anyways, was my boss was a year younger than me, but had much more experience. She saw the initiative that I took. She knew that I didn't want to stay at the level that I was, and was proactive, and allowed me that freedom to grow. And she promoted me and she gave me advice and everything-- she had a baby, and then I had a baby a year later.

And so it was great to be able to-- I don't say follow in her footsteps, but to-- especially in that-- dealing with work-life balance, to have someone who is basically going through what I was going through, just a little bit earlier, was really helpful on a personal level as well as on the business level. I haven't worked for her for, gosh, close to 10 years, but we still are friends and still get together. And so she's great.

And then my first boss at Warner Brothers was also wonderful. He gave me a lot of autonomy, which is-- in a sense, can be scary sometimes. It's sort of what you want, but at the same time, there's also that part of me that goes like, I'm new to this. I don't know what I'm doing. And while I am very proactive, and don't tend to need a lot of hand-holding, and like to figure things out, I'm also-- was super scared of screwing everything up.

But he trusted me. And then, if I messed up, he told me about it. And sometimes getting that critical feedback is hard, and I take it extra personally, because I feel like I've just failed everyone, and then they-- everyone thinks I suck and whatever. I'm much harder on myself than he was or that other people are. But I also realized that he didn't-- he wasn't keeping tally of the things that I was doing wrong.

He gave me the feedback. He knew I wouldn't do it again, and moved on. And again, I learned so much from him, especially about how to navigate work at the studio, and how to do this job, and even more than that. And again, even on a personal level, he had a teenage sons, so he would talk to me about the stuff that they were going through.

So I'm very lucky that I, again, haven't worked for him for several years, but he is someone that I can reach out to, who can give me advice. There's a couple other people. There was-- one of the first assistant jobs that I had-- one of the executives who had had my job like five years before, then she was promoted internally. So we had a lot of shared knowledge, because we had worked for the same person, so she knew what I was going through when I was in the weeds with it.

Her career skyrocketed, and she's many levels above me, but she's also-- again, she's a friend, but she's also someone who I think has seen a lot, and I know will always give me advice and be there for me, and be that mentor. So even though I don't consider her a mentor-- I consider her my friend-- she definitely has taken on that role. And when I am having issues at work or issues of, do I want to take this job or that job, and the pros and cons, knowing that I have people like this to bounce some of these challenging things off of has made the world of difference.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. I think a very common through-line for both of you is like you didn't really have formal mentors. You had people that you had professional connections with or academic connections with, who really had an impact on you and you were student or when you were out there in professional world, who gave you advice and gave you feedback that had a real impact on you that you're able to take with you as you continue to grow and to develop.

Now, at this point, you two have both sought out opportunities to mentor Northwestern students through the Northwestern Network Mentorship Program, so I would actually like to hear from both of you-- why did you choose to become a mentor? Why this particular program? Michelle, we can begin with you. And I think, at this point, we can really open this up as a conversation-- like why this program, great experiences you've had, some challenges?

MICHELLE LIN: Sure. Yeah. I think it was a natural fit for me to offer my time as a mentor through the Mentor Network at Northwestern, given that I'd received so much great advice and support along the way from people affiliated with Northwestern. And overall, it's been a wonderful experience. The one thing I will say is that mentoring is a two-way street, and you get as much out of it what you put into it.

And I've had a variety of interactions with students who have reached out to me-- everything from a one-time informational interview-- what is it like to be a doctor, tell me about your research kind of a conversation-- to more longitudinal relationships, where I continue to stay in touch and offer advice along the medical school application process-- choosing a specialty, other things of that nature.

And I would say the same is true for my own relationships with mentors. The ones where I really invest are the ones that pay off the most, specifically as a mentee. So yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways to be mentors, to mentor. There's not any one mentor who can fulfill all of anyone's mentoring needs.

I have career advice mentors. Many of those happen to be women with caregiving responsibilities, because that's how I identify. But I have other mentors for-- peer mentors, for example. And so I think it's wonderful, in the sense that there's no such thing as too many, I think. And you can make of it what you wish.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Yeah. And for me, I started getting calls and emails even before I became an official mentor, just because I guess my information on the alumni website and people who are interested in film or TV might see my name and reach out to me. So I would have those conversations. But I think, in having those, that's where I realized, oh, people actually want to know about my career path, and my life, and all of that.

And I think, for a long time, I didn't think I had much to offer, because my path was not as direct as maybe some others. It was sort of zigged and zagged. And like I said, there were-- I had other friends who we started out-- because I did acting for six years, and then was older, and then people-- some of my friends as assistants who got the job that launched their careers much faster. I never had that really quick trajectory, so I-- it took me a long time to think that people would even-- like I had anything to even share.

But I think, in-- sometimes just in hearing that path is really important to people for any career, but I think particularly in entertainment. Anyway, so that's when I found out about this mentorship program-- that I signed up. I agree with Michelle, but I would say most of the interactions tend to be just informational.

We'll Zoom or we'll talk for half hour, an hour. But once in a while, they-- there are people who are in more constant contact or reach-- sometimes people reach out before they've graduated, and then six months later, they moved to L.A., and they let me know, or they let me know when they land a job. So all of that is great. And again, I agree with Michelle that I have found-- not just in my own purposes here, but even in my work, because we do pair our writers with mentors-- and even when I worked at Sundance, there was a mentorship program-- that it really is reliant on the mentee to really drive that relationship and to get out of it what they want.

I think most mentors, like us, want to give, want to help, but we're also very busy. And so it's not that we don't always want to help, but it's sometimes hard for us, because of our bandwidth, to remember to reach out to our mentee to say, hey, do you need anything? And so I think, both when you're setting up your relationship with your mentor-- you should say-- figure out parameters, whether it's, should we talk once a month?

Do we want to talk quarterly? Are there specific things you're looking for? And then just remembering to drive that relationship, because we will always be there for you-- but yeah, I think it's just really important for mentees to know that -- don't be afraid to reach out. You're not nagging us, but just it is incumbent on you to be the one driving it.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah. Something I have heard talking to other Northwestern alumni mentors is how important having intention is when you come in as a mentee to say, here's what I'm looking to get out of this relationship, and here's how often I would like to talk, and here's the advice that I'm looking for. And that it makes it so much easier for mentors to then be able to navigate those relationships and be able to offer really tangible advice and guidance.

MICHELLE LIN: Yeah. I definitely think that's through-- that's true, and that does happen. I can be really specific and targeted, and I can be the most helpful. On the other hand, I also identify with people who don't know exactly what it is that they want out of a mentoring relationship, because I was that person for a very long time, and sometimes I still am.

And that's OK too. And I think it takes a little bit of time to figure out, where am I? Where am I going? What do I need to get to where I want to get to next? And those conversations are OK too, because I think it takes a certain kind of knowledge to know what it is that you don't know.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Yeah, I think that's a really important point. It takes a lot of courage, and it takes a lot of--I think-- self awareness to say I don't exactly know what I want, but I am open to having a conversation and identifying exactly the path I want to go on. Something I think that's-- like you two have both touched upon, that's so reassuring, I think, is knowing that there isn't one correct path to get to where you need to go.

I certainly did not have a very direct path, but having mentorship figures who said, yeah, I was all over the place, and you probably will be too is very reassuring, because then you're not benchmarking against your peers. You're benchmarking against yourself, which, I think, takes a lot of time to get to. I definitely have to remind myself that it's OK to not be at a particular place, if I see my peers are further along than I am, because our-- what's that saying?

It's the journey, not the destination? I think that totally applies here. So one thing I would like to know-- and you are so welcome to totally disagree with me on this-- is, do you think the qualities of your field impacts the way that you mentor students, or do you really feel like the mentorship experience has so many universal qualities that those differences might be not even worth considering or really thinking about?

REBECCA WINDSOR: It's interesting. And again, it's hard to say, because I have not done this in any other field. But I think, within the entertainment industry, if we're talking about creatives, writers, directors, people like that, I think the difference there is that you can always be generating material. So if you don't have the career that you want, you can find a way to do it.

For me, on the executive track-- a little bit trickier, because there's only-- all I have is my resume and the jobs that I've worked at before. And that may be for other industries also, where you're going from job to job, and there's only so much you can learn. But again, I think for-- if you're a writer and you're not getting jobs based on the scripts that you've written, you can always write something new.

And that's something I tell every writer. Even if you have a script that's gotten you great meetings and it's gotten you stuff, you should always be writing something new, always generating, because people want-- a script that was great from four years ago-- everybody's read it. They want to know, what's the next thing that you're working on?

Also, can write yourself into a new job. If you've been writing comedies for 10 years and you want to transition into drama, write a drama. You can avoid being boxed into, oh, no, you're just a comedy writer. You don't know how to write drama, or you don't know how to write-- I don't know-- horror or whatever. Write a really good one, and then that's your-- that shows you can do it.

And similarly, on the director front-- although it's-- I also am very mindful that, whereas writing a script costs nothing-- all you need is a laptop-- making a short film or making a piece of work-- obviously, there's a financial consideration, so it's a little bit harder to generate that work. But again, if that's what you want to do, if you want to be a director, you have to find a way to keep directing. Having samples that are old and dated, or just not getting you the work that you want is not going to help you.

So I guess going back to the mentoring thing, that's what I tell writers and directors all the time is, you've got to be doing it. And then, for executives and things like that, the only, I guess, advice is-- similar to me, it's like-- sometimes you just take the jobs that come your way, or sometimes you take a job, and you don't know if it's going to pan out or not, and it could lead to great things, and you don't know.

So I think just be open to it. And like you said before, there is-- hindsight is 2020. And it's the journey, not the sprint or whatever that metaphor is. And comparing yourself to others is the worst thing to do, even though I'm guilty of it all the time. But I think what I have found-- again, hindsight is 2020. And in retrospect, I wouldn't be where I am today in this position if I had not had all these diverse experiences, though at the time, some of them were very frustrating, because I felt like they weren't propelling me in the same way.

MICHELLE LIN: I think a lot of what Rebecca said resonates as well. Again, yeah, I think there are a lot of things that I suggest people do that may be specific to medicine, but not necessarily, in the sense that-- common question I get is, how did you choose emergency medicine? And then I tell people to talk to as many different specialists in different fields as they can.

But I think that's also just generally good advice to meet lots of different people who are doing different things so you can figure out what works for you. I do find that sometimes, particularly students who are sort of on the pre-med track or in medical school, are very-- they tend to be type A overachievers, and so a lot of my advice involves around-- revolves around, it's OK to either not know, or figure it out, or explore different things, and that things will work out the way they're intended to, even if it's not A to B to C in this linear fashion that we've all been talking about. So yeah, but I think there are a lot of commonalities as well.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Just jumping off of that, Michelle, I also talk to college students, whether it's Northwestern, or USC, or whatnot, and a lot of those young writers-- they just feel like, OK, I graduated. And then, how do I get my first job? I've got to do this, and I've got to do this, and I've got to do this. Talking from a creative field, and in writing, writing is-- you're using your soul, and your experiences, and your life experiences.

So yes, talent is really important, but also, what is the life that you have led? And what do you have to say about it at 22? And is it going to be as resonant as maybe at 30? And so oftentimes, I just want to tell them, hold on. You don't need to graduate and jump straight into Hollywood. Go backpack around Europe. Do Peace Corps. Do whatever. Just live life, work different jobs, all of those.

Even for me, waitressing-- the amount of stuff that I learned about psychology, and toxic work environments, and all of that-- simple things-- just getting your heart broken-- all of that, of living life, stuff that has nothing to do with the entertainment industry, is actually what's going to be so much more interesting so you don't have this myopic view of what the world is.

So I always tell-- I tell college students in general, just live-- don't worry about it. Chances are you're probably not going to get your first job right out of school also, but you're not even going to be the writer or the filmmaker that you want to be for several years. And so much of that comes from not just honing your craft, but also just living life.

MICHELLE LIN: That's great advice that I'm going to start giving it to my mentees as well.

CAT RECKELHOFF: What is some advice you would give to Northwestern alumni who are thinking about joining the Northwestern Network Mentorship Program, whether they want to come in as a mentor or a mentee? What do you think is good advice you would give to them prior to them joining? Or perhaps they're current mentors or mentees, and they're just looking to have the best possible experience.

MICHELLE LIN: I think Rebecca already alluded a lot to these tips earlier-- is that I think the mentee really drives the quality of the relationship. And when you can come prepared, ideally you know what you want-- and if you don't, at least saying that, like, hey, I'm just exploring-- so that I have an idea of when I'm able to offer you. And if that's in your email introduction, even better.

And if you have a plan for how you'd like to continue that relationship, and how often, and what your goals are-- think that makes it very clear and mutually beneficial. And so I think having very clear expectations up front, and being open, and communicating often--

REBECCA WINDSOR: Yeah, agreed-- and I guess maybe the only other thing I would add is, even if someone doesn't feel like an obvious perfect match of a mentor or a mentee, they may still have something to offer. I forgot-- this past year I was paired through a Hollywood-- not a Northwestern program, but through this Hollywood organization. I was paired with a mentor who works in the industry, but not in my field at all.

And I was a little worried about how much he would be able to help me out, not-- just because it's tangentially related. But he's been great. And just part of it is the fact that he's been working in the industry a lot longer than I have, and seen a lot more, and if he does-- and he's been great at both things-- about giving advice on work situations.

He's also offered to make introductions to me to people who he knows that do work more in my field. So you never know with-- as a mentee, as you're looking for mentors, who they may know. And so I think just be open to it. And if someone doesn't feel like the exact thing you want to do, they can still be very helpful.

CAT RECKELHOFF: It was so much fun to hear from both of you and hear where there's just so many commonalities in your mentorship practice, things that are specific to your field, but then also some really good life advice in there as well. I'll be taking a couple of things that y'all said today with me as I move forward in my own career, which has zigged and zagged in many different directions.

I'd really like to thank you both for taking the time to join us on Northwestern Intersections today. I'm grateful for your time, and I know our alumni listeners and current Northwestern students are going to be very excited to hear what you both have to say.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Thank you so much for having us.

MICHELLE LIN: Thank you so much. Also, Rebecca-- so nice to meet you. You sound like a total badass.

REBECCA WINDSOR: Oh, I was going to say likewise. I was like, I'm just working in Hollywood. You're saving lives.

CAT RECKELHOFF: Thank you so much, Michelle and Rebecca, for taking the time to share your stories and insights. And thank you, listeners, for tuning into today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. For more information about our podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections.

Next up, we'll hear from Tananarive Due, film historian, educator, producer, writer, and leading voice of Black speculative fiction in a special two-part episode of Intersections. Part 1 will be released on February 3rd. And until next time, stay safe. Take care of yourself, your friends, and your community.